How many young people in Shanghai today can speak Shanghainese? How many children in Shanghai today can understand Shanghainese? If this continues, will Shanghainese dialect slowly die out?
Like most dialects, Shanghainese is also facing inheritance difficulties, and this anxiety has become deeper and deeper in recent years. At the beginning of this year, the hit TV series "Flowers" (Shanghai version) made people truly feel the rich flavor of life and exquisite emotional expression in Shanghainese. Many people are looking forward to more Shanghai-language novels and TV series similar to "Flowers". However, some people feel that the inheritance and development of Shanghainese dialect cannot only rely on popular literary and artistic works, but need to comprehensively examine the current situation and propose countermeasures.
Obviously, the inheritance of Shanghainese dialect is a complex issue involving history, culture, language and social changes. It is not only the carrier of Shanghai culture, but also a witness to the history of this land for hundreds of years. The formation and development of Shanghainese dialect is the result of multiple factors, demonstrating its unique linguistic charm and cultural value.
In recent years, more and more people are concerned about how to pass on the Shanghainese dialect. Mao Shanyu, a famous Shanghai Opera artist, said that Shanghai Opera audiences are mainly middle-aged and elderly people. Their love for Shanghai Opera is probably influenced by their parents, but will they bring their children to watch the opera? "Today's children are very busy studying, and the performances are all in the evening, and the children are doing homework, which has caused a disconnect among young audiences." Cao Kefan, the host of
, said that he also speaks English. No one said that Australians speak substandard, and Scotland People don’t speak authentically, and we are too harsh now, which makes many young people afraid to speak Shanghainese. "So don't worry about whether young people's Shanghainese dialect is standard or not. We should encourage them to speak. Besides, there is no standard in itself."
In the past few years, Qian Cheng, a famous burlesque actor, has been committed to popularizing Shanghainese dialect in schools. He feels that language learning is important. The best age group is from kindergarten to middle school, but most children of this age cannot speak Shanghainese, or even understand it. "Each of our families needs to be culturally conscious and speak Shanghainese, so that this phenomenon can slowly change."
Dialect is an important tool for local people's life and production, and it is also the basis for local culture. As Shanghai dialect was once spoken by millions of people and circulated in China and even Asia's largest international cities, the significance of ensuring its inheritance is obviously self-evident.
Guests : Mao Shanyu (famous Shanghai opera master), Cao Kefan (well-known host), Qian Cheng (famous comedian)
Host : Gao Yuan (Liberation Daily’s chief reporter and senior editor)
Poster (drawn by Huang Haixin)
Shanghainese Is it on the verge of being lost?
Gao Yuan : Let me ask you three first, how much do you use Shanghainese in your daily work and life?
Mao Shanyu : My frequency is relatively high. My family is basically local, so they all speak Shanghainese. When I was talking to people I didn’t know outside, the other person spoke Mandarin, and I also spoke Mandarin. As I talked, I felt a Shanghainese accent, so I switched back to Shanghainese.
Our Shanghai Theater usually communicates in Shanghainese. Sometimes we invite foreign directors to rehearse plays, and then we have to speak Mandarin. Moreover, not all theater leaders are from Shanghai. The team speaks Mandarin in meetings, but Shanghainese is spoken in theater meetings.
Mao Shanyu (photo by Haishar)
Cao Kefan: I am about half and half. I speak Shanghainese in life and mainly Mandarin at work. Of course there are exceptions. For example, when I interviewed teacher Mao Shanyu recently, we all spoke Shanghainese. I think this is a flavor of the language. Among the guests I interviewed, some people did not live in Shanghai but spoke Shanghainese very well. I would ask them to speak a few words in Shanghainese, and the results were often good.
When Shanghai held the World Expo in 2010, I did a Spring Festival program called "Can Fan Listen", which invited Shanghai artists from all over the world, such as Lu Yan, Zhou Caiqin, Bai Xianyong, Chen Chong, Mao Amin, etc., and everyone spoke Shanghainese. Mao Amin said that when she was a child, she and her brother drank half a bottle of wine made by their parents, and then lay under the bed and slept soundly. The family could not find it, which was very fun.
Cao Kefan (photo by Haishar)
Qian Cheng: I speak Shanghainese at a relatively high rate, probably 99%, and there is still 1% left for new Shanghainese. Sometimes they can’t understand Shanghainese, so we communicate Just use Mandarin. I pay more attention to the inheritance of dialects in my life. I served as the Shanghainese language director for the Shanghainese version of "Song of Everlasting Sorrow" recently performed. At the Shanghai Film Festival this time, there was an old movie "The Crow and the Sparrow" dubbed in Shanghainese. I also served as the Shanghainese director, and also played the role played by Zhao Dan.
Qian Cheng (photo by Haishar)
Gao Yuan: Many people say that young people in Shanghai now do not like to speak Shanghainese, and even fewer are proficient in it. Do you think this is the case?
Mao Shanyu: Our family attaches great importance to Shanghainese. I have been speaking Shanghainese to my daughter since she was born. Later, she became very proficient in speaking Shanghainese, and it is not the kind of babyish voice, but quite authentic Shanghainese. But now there are really not many young people in Shanghai who speak well. Our Shanghai Theater is recruiting students as far away as Gansu. Because I am young, I still have time to teach Shanghainese.
Qian Cheng: My wife and I are traveling together, and we both speak Shanghainese. My son has also been talking to us since he was a child. Of course he speaks Mandarin a lot outside, but he always speaks Shanghainese at home.
Several years ago, UNESCO asked experts to evaluate dialects around the world and finally divided them into seven levels. I think the third level of "Definitely Endangered" is more similar to the current situation of Shanghai dialect. Parents use this dialect to communicate with their children, but the children no longer use this dialect to reply to their parents. In other words, if parents speak Shanghainese to their children, the first few sentences of the children may still have Shanghainese pronunciation. After ten minutes, the whole army is wiped out and everything is in Mandarin. The parents are captured by the children.
is even more serious, it is the second level "severely endangered". This language is the language used by grandparents to communicate with each other, but it is no longer used to communicate with the outside world, and the outside world no longer uses this language. Next, Shanghainese dialect may develop from "definitely endangered" to "severely endangered".
Gao Yuan: Teacher Cao, do you agree with Teacher Qian’s teaching?
Cao Kefan : I am relatively optimistic, because Shanghai has been a city of immigrants since the opening of the port in 1843. The dialects of Shanghai are divided into several areas, including the downtown area, Chongming area, Songjiang area, Jiading area, Liantang area, etc. . Because Shanghai's economy and business are relatively prosperous, a large number of Zhejiang dialects and Wu dialects have been integrated into Shanghai.
In the 1930s, some people calculated that about 70% of Shanghai dialects came from Wu dialect, and 10% came from Ningbo dialect, because there were more immigrants from these two places. There is still this difference in Shanghainese dialect today. For example, those who say "we" as "Wo伲" come from the Suzhou dialect, and those who say "Ala" come from the Ningbo dialect.
Moreover, in modern times, many Westerners have come to Shanghai, and a large amount of English has entered the Shanghai dialect. For example, "牓三" means beg sir, "Ga三火" means gossip, "哉三" means on sale, etc. The evolution of language develops with the development of the times, and other dialects will continue to be added. Today's Shanghainese is different from the past. Although there are relatively few people speaking Shanghainese now, as long as there are people who speak it, it can still be passed down and developed.
Gaoyuan: Teacher Mao, are you a "pessimist" or an "optimist"?
Mao Shanyu: Teacher Cao said that Shanghainese dialect is advancing with the times and constantly changing. I agree. Teacher Qian is a little worried about the inheritance of Shanghainese dialect, and I agree. In the past, Shanghai Opera had troupes in Suzhou, Wuxi, and Changzhou. The troupes had territory and audiences. But now those troupes have disappeared, and Shanghai Opera only has troupes in Shanghai. The loss of territory will soon be followed by the loss of language. From this point of view, the inheritance of Shanghainese dialect is urgent, otherwise the Shanghai Opera genre may no longer exist.
Shanghai is very attractive. There are more and more new Shanghainese people in recent years. We Shanghainese accept them with a very tolerant attitude. We are still afraid that others will not understand. We first change ourselves and take the initiative to speak Mandarin.Our young actors at the Shanghai Theater use Shanghainese on stage, but they also like to speak Mandarin in life.
When I was a child, the entire family spoke Shanghainese. Some of my neighbors were from Suzhou and Ningbo, but they all had a Shanghainese accent, which made communication easier. When I was in school, I read newspapers, and my teacher also asked me to read them in Shanghainese. At that time, I had a better foundation in dialects. But the situation is different now. I agree with Teacher Qian that Shanghainese is more dangerous.
Program scene (photo by Haishar)
Is Shanghainese so important?
Gao Yuan: Some people believe that Shanghainese is an important carrier of Shanghai-style culture and even Jiangnan culture. Some people also think that Shanghai is a city of immigrants, and you can speak Mandarin, Shanghainese or even English, but Shanghainese is not that important. What do you think is the importance of inheriting Shanghainese dialect?
Mao Shanyu : I think it is very important, because the real characteristic of a city is not high-rise buildings, which can be built as long as you have money. Language represents the lifestyle of ordinary people, and the characteristics of the city are written in language. Shanghai itself is a city of immigrants and its culture is diverse. However, if we do not pay attention to the inheritance of dialects, Shanghai's characteristics will not be obvious.
This is like our local opera, which is passed down orally. There is no systematic big book. You can understand it after reading it. It is all brought out by the master and the apprentice. Shanghai Opera represents the local culture that Shanghai people love to hear and see, and reflects the Shanghai people's living habits on the stage. If dialects disappear, operas such as Shanghai opera and Shanghai burlesque will also disappear. Moreover, the inheritance of dialects cannot rely on a piece of official documents, but must rely on continuous accumulation. After all, dialect is the charm of culture.
Cao Kefan : The importance of dialect is that it is a key factor that distinguishes the cultural form of one place from other places. If the dialect is lost, the culture of this place will be lost.
There is a line in Shakespeare's famous play "Hamlet", "To be or not to be, that is the question." The translation from English to Chinese was successful, but is it possible to translate it into dialect? The famous Yue Opera master Zhao Zhigang wanted to put this play on the Yue Opera stage many years ago. It was very strange when he thought of it in Shaoxing dialect. There was a certain degree of deviation from the philosophy and tragedy of the original text.
The TV series "Flowers" has a Mandarin version and a Shanghainese version. Many friends from the north told me that even though they can't understand Shanghainese, they still think the Shanghainese version is better. Just like when we were young, the foreign films we watched were dubbed, but now children like to listen to the original sound, because the original sound is more colorful. Therefore, we still have to go back to the essence of language and reflect the characteristics of culture. Dialects are not dispensable for a place.
Gao Yuan: I heard Teacher Qian say before that protecting the diversity of languages is as important as protecting the diversity of species.
Qian Cheng: This sentence was said by Xu Haoliang, Deputy Secretary-General of the United Nations, who is also from Shanghai. In an interview, he said that if he went back to Shanghai for vacation and couldn't hear Shanghainese, he would doubt whether this was Shanghai. Moreover, he was interviewed in Shanghainese that time, and I felt that he expressed my true feelings.
Shanghai is a city that embraces all rivers, but it cannot be at the expense of local culture. Shanghai dialect is a symbol of the city and cannot be lost by us. Just like when we travel to a foreign country or other places, of course we have to see different cultural characteristics. For a city, high-rise buildings are certainly good, but dialects are also essential.
Gaoyuan: In a sense, dialect is nostalgia and nostalgia.
Cao Kefan : When the Suzhou Museum was completed, I interviewed the master architect Ieoh Ming Pei, who happened to be 90 years old that year. I asked if I should do the interview in Shanghainese, and he was very happy. We talked about a lot of his past events in Shanghai in Shanghainese. Jin Yucheng said in the postscript of "Flowers" that he came up with the idea of writing a novel in Shanghainese after watching my interview with Mr. Bei.
Back to the importance of language, for example, Western opera, whether it is Italian, French, or Russian, each opera must be sung in the local language to have a flavor.If you switch to Chinese, of course you can sing it, but you may not be able to find the most suitable words. The open and close accents may not be right, causing the breath to be wrong. It's like singing Shanghai Opera in English. It's fun, but it's always weird.
Gao Yuan : There was a time when it was popular to sing Shanghainese songs to promote the Shanghainese dialect, but some people thought it was tacky. But there is a consensus that "Golden Bird", first sung by Teacher Mao more than 40 years ago, is the most beautiful song in Shanghainese.
Mao Shanyu : Everyone is worried about the loss of Shanghai dialect. We must learn from the Cantonese people. They protect Cantonese so well. The popularity of Cantonese songs is also a major factor.
Some people translate a popular song into Shanghainese and sing it in Shanghai dialect. As a result, outsiders can’t understand it, and we Shanghainese can’t understand it either, and we have to read the subtitles. Shanghainese songs are indeed a means of promoting Shanghainese dialect, but there is currently a lack of talent for composing music and lyrics. In the early 1980s, the Shanghai Opera TV series "Xuanzi" was broadcast and became extremely popular in Shanghai. "Golden Bird" is the theme song of a TV series. In fact, it cannot be regarded as a Shanghainese song, but a Shanghai opera. We have made reforms on the traditional old Shanghai opera, and the music has absorbed elements of pop songs. Teresa Teng was the most popular at that time, and "The Golden Bird" absorbed some of her singing skills. However, it is a Shanghai opera after all, so it is still difficult for everyone to learn to sing.
Gao Yuan: Do you think Shanghainese dialect will slowly die out in a few years?
Cao Kefan : I am still relatively optimistic. I don’t think Shanghainese will die out. Of course, the standard Shanghainese spoken by everyone now may no longer exist. But it doesn’t matter, every era has its own dialect, but the way it is spoken is different. For example, it is unlikely that we can speak Shanghainese spoken by elderly people born in the 1930s and 1940s, or even understand it.
I once interviewed Zhou Xinfang’s daughter Zhou Caiqin. She either spoke English or Shanghainese. One time I invited her to dinner, and she suddenly asked: "Kefan, has the driver made any arrangements for dinner?" I didn't understand, so I asked again and realized it was the driver. It is difficult for young people to speak words like this, and it is even harder for young people to distinguish the sharp and round sounds.
Gao Yuan : Just talking about Jianyin Tuanyin, Teacher Qian can explain in detail what Jianyin Tuanyin is?
Qiancheng: The sharp sound starts with the pinyin initial consonants of z, c, and s. When pronouncing this sound, the upper and lower teeth have to touch. For example, the "tip" of the sharp sound is caused by the airflow rushing out of the throat after the upper and lower teeth touch. When the upper and lower teeth separate, the sound is produced.
We have to speak standard Shanghainese well, which is difficult to say. When I entered the comedy school, I had to practice this kind of pronunciation very hard. But it’s easier said than done. Nowadays, there are far fewer words with sharp pronunciation than words with tuuanyin. We only need to remember the characters with sharp pronunciation, and the rest are all words with tuuanyin. Moreover, characters with sharp accents have a radical pattern. For example, "青" has a sharp accent, and adding a single character "Qian" next to it also has a sharp accent. Also, "box" and "think" both have sharp sounds, so the sharp sounds can be remembered. Of course, Jian Tuanyin is not just for the sake of sound, but it is what the previous generation of Shanghainese said.
Gao Yuan : Nowadays, many Shanghainese or new Shanghainese sometimes want to be naughty and add "booka" as an embellishment. But to the ears of educated old Shanghainese, this is a foul language and should not be said. Is this kind of word a waste of Shanghainese dialect or is it a characteristic?
Qian Cheng: I was recently dubbing "The Crow and the Sparrow", and the character played by Zhao Dan had this spoken word. We respected the original work and also dubbed it. I think
has a development process. In the past, we all thought it was a swear word and a curse word, but as time goes by, many people now think it is just a catchphrase and a modal particle. In my opinion, if possible, try not to use such words. If you really want to express your emotions, you can use them occasionally.
Cao Kefan : This word was first used to curse people. In the current language environment, it is indeed used more to express certain emotions and has become a modal particle. Sometimes it's praise, sometimes it's disdain. The meaning is different in different contexts. It is not exactly a curse word. There are similar interjections in English. I agree with what Teacher Qian said. Under normal circumstances, try not to talk about it if you can.Sometimes when creating operas, it is necessary to use such function words to convey the characteristics of the characters. This is still necessary.
Gao Yuan : Teacher Mao, do you use this word in your drama?
Mao Shanyu : According to the teachings of my parents when I was a child, I cannot say this word because it is a curse. But now it is indeed used frequently by many people, and it has become a kind of signature symbol of Shanghai dialect. I came across a short video two days ago. The first sentence in the video was this word, indicating that he is from Shanghai, and then told a story about Shanghai in Mandarin.
In our Shanghai opera, we sometimes use it when we are performing the hooligans in the alley. It’s also quite strange. As soon as this word was mentioned, the audience immediately applauded. I think that in order to present the character's life level, using it more sparingly and appropriately can still make the character more vivid, but it is not impossible to use it at all.
Poster (drawn by Huang Haixin)
What does the inheritance of Shanghainese rely on?
Gao Yuan: The Shanghainese version of the drama "Song of Everlasting Sorrow" is currently being performed, and the Mandarin version has been staged for 20 years. Teacher Qian thinks, what is the meaning of the Shanghai version?
Qian Cheng: By watching the Shanghai version of "Song of Everlasting Sorrow", the audience will not only become familiar with the regional culture of Shanghai in the past, but also have a deeper understanding of Shanghai people's lifestyle and spiritual pursuits. Of course, they will also have a better understanding of Shanghai dialect. intimacy.
The audience for the drama is relatively young, so it is necessary for them to understand the more authentic Shanghainese dialect. For example, the Mandarin word "suffering a loss" is also spoken by young people in real life, but it is pronounced in Shanghainese. In fact, we didn’t talk about it this way before, but about “cutting”. This time we picked it up. Also, for example, if you take some fabric and make some clothes, everyone can understand it. But in Shanghainese in the past, we didn’t talk about making several clothes, but we talked about making several sets of clothes. Although this is a small change, you can taste the way Shanghainese spoke in the past.
I did not participate in the Mandarin version of "Song of Everlasting Sorrow". After the Shanghainese version was performed, I was fortunate enough to have contact with the original author, Ms. Wang Anyi. She liked the Mandarin version very much. Regarding the Shanghainese version, she said, "I like it even more." Because the performance in Shanghai dialect is more expressive and has a more Shanghai flavor.
Gao Yuan: Do you think the Shanghainese version of the TV series "Flowers", the Shanghainese version of the drama "Song of Everlasting Sorrow", the Shanghainese version of the musical "The Myth of Love", etc., can play a big role in the inheritance of Shanghainese dialect?
Mao Shanyu : I don’t think it will be a three-minute hit, but will have a longer-lasting effect. I have a friend from Shanghai who lives in Australia. He also watches "Flowers" there. The atmosphere is very lively when watching it. Even some of his friends who are not from Shanghai also like to watch it, and they watch the Shanghai version.
But while "Flowers" is hot, it cools down. So we have to take advantage of this hot moment and figure out how to add fuel to the fire. We hope that more writers, artists and novelists will continue to explore Shanghai themes and publish more works, so that the popularity will last longer, and it will definitely play a good role in protecting the Shanghai dialect.
Cao Kefan : "Flowers" has indeed brought about Shanghainese fever, but I don't think there will be many Shanghainese TV series in the future, because everyone is unwilling to follow the trend. If they all speak Shanghainese, others will think they are following Wong Kar-wai.
But I think as long as there is an opportunity, we should try our best to use different methods to spread Shanghainese. More than ten years ago, I played the role of a father in "The Thirteen Hairpins of Jinling" directed by Zhang Yimou. Zhang Yimou told me, since Cao Kefan is here, can this character speak Shanghainese? I modified the lines according to the Shanghai dialect system. But Director Zhang was not sure that my Shanghainese dialect was not standard. The old man who cooked coffee on the set was from Shanghai. Director Zhang invited this old man to come over and watch the playback. The old uncle said that it was very authentic, so this Shanghainese dialect was retained. .
Gaoyuan: Many people believe that film and television works are mainly about creating an atmosphere, and the key to the inheritance of language is to cultivate it from an early age.Should schools play a key role in the inheritance of Shanghainese dialect?
Mao Shanyu: The education in the school is definitely based on Mandarin, but it was a bit too emphasized in the past. Students were not even allowed to speak Shanghainese during recess. Moreover, the school also requires children to speak Mandarin to their parents when they go home. Children listen to their teachers the most and ask their grandparents to speak Mandarin when they return home. The elderly may not be able to change the situation at first, but gradually they start speaking less standard Mandarin around the children.
If at that time, the school's requirements were not so strict and children could speak Shanghainese during play and recess, the situation might be better than it is now.
Qiancheng: The key stage of language learning is from early childhood to middle school. After learning, you will basically not forget it. When I was a student, except for the Chinese teacher who spoke Mandarin, all the teachers in other classes spoke Shanghainese. Later, the education department required all primary and secondary schools and kindergartens to speak Mandarin. I even saw a slogan: "Please speak Mandarin and be a civilized person." Is it uncivilized to speak Shanghainese?
Actually, it’s best not to have one size fits all. For example, when attending drama school, teachers require students to speak Mandarin. This is a professional requirement and also a preparation for working in a drama troupe in the future. For example, when I joined the comedy troupe, the teacher required us to speak Shanghainese. This was not enough. We also had to learn local dialects.
Now the situation is reversed. All teachers in schools speak Mandarin, and many teachers no longer speak Shanghainese. This is the progress of the times, and Mandarin should of course be promoted. However, regional culture should also be inherited and protected, and Mandarin should not be promoted at the expense of regional culture.
Gao Yuan: Some scholars also said that if young people don’t speak Shanghainese, how can they blame the school? The key lies in the family. If Shanghainese is not spoken at home, how can the dialect be passed down?
Cao Kefan : The key to the inheritance of language is the consensus of the whole people. If everyone thinks that speaking Shanghainese is a meaningful thing, everyone starting from me can at least slow down the loss of Shanghainese. Because loss is certain. In the process of historical development, some things will be lost and some things will remain. Just like Mr. Mei Lanfang has acted in more than 100 plays in his life, what remains is "Mei Ba Chu". If the essence is retained, it is not a bad thing.
I am not so pessimistic about Shanghainese. Of course, the situation is serious. It may be endangered at the third level, but it has not yet been admitted to the ICU. There is still hope. It will come back after receiving oxygen.
Gao Yuan : This oxygen must be provided by the whole society. How to provide it specifically?
Qian Cheng: When I was a member of the Shanghai Municipal People’s Political Consultative Conference, I would write proposals on different aspects every year and put forward suggestions for the inheritance and protection of Shanghainese dialect. For example, Shanghai buses use Shanghainese to announce their stops. This proposal was written by me. Of course, what is being done is not good enough. Rail transit lines 16 and 17 have Shanghainese stations, but they have not yet been fully rolled out. Moreover, Shanghainese is placed after Mandarin and English. In fact, we must have cultural confidence. According to the national language policy, foreign languages cannot be placed before our own language, including dialects.
It is very important to create a Shanghainese language environment. We cannot guarantee that everyone who works, lives, and studies in Shanghai speaks standard Shanghainese, but as long as they speak, we must encourage them. Of course, there are some friends who want to learn standard Shanghainese. We can tell them the long and short sounds so that they can distinguish them clearly.
Each of us must think about what we can do to preserve the inheritance of Shanghainese dialect? I go to middle schools every week to hold classes and teach them how to speak Shanghainese. I'm quite happy too. Listening to them speak pidgin Shanghainese makes me laugh. We must continue to speak Shanghainese to them so that they can influence their classmates, the people around them, and their families. This way, from point to point, it will definitely have a positive impact.
Mao Shanyu: People like us who have lived in Shanghai for generations are not willing to see the Shanghainese dialect eventually become extinct, and we especially hope that it will continue to be passed down. When we will reach the critical point, we can’t say now, but if we don’t do something, we will definitely reach the critical point, and the critical point will come earlier.
Language and writing are both carriers of culture. They must flow before they can be passed on. We hope that the critical point of Shanghainese will not come, but judging from the current situation, at least the alarm has been sounded.
