r.s. Thomas is a contradictory poet, a true poet, whose depth often lies in contradiction, as well as the balance, compatibility and even transcendence of this contradiction.
As a Welshman, R.S. Thomas believed that the rural farmers in Wales had "dry souls", but he also praised their "primitive state"; as a pastor, he wanted to seek "divine salvation" and obtain "the grace of light" throughout his life, but also believed that , "The meaning of existence lies in art"; and as a person who writes poetry in English, he loves Welsh, the local language, and regrets that he cannot write poetry in Welsh. Various tensions form the complexity of R.S. Thomas's poems, reflecting a vivid and real image of a poet who continues to explore himself and the world throughout his life.
This article is from the b04-05 edition of the special feature "R.S. Thomas: Towards the Light on the Inner Horizon" on June 14, 2024, of the Beijing News Book Review Weekly.
"Theme" b01 r.s. Thomas: Toward the light on the inner horizon
"Theme" b02-b03 "A Blackbird Is Singing": The son of the earth is not lost
"Theme" b04-b05 r.s. Thomas: Be sensitive to your heart The light cannot be ignored
「Literature」b06-b07 Crossing the boundaries of human separation
「Social Science」b08 Are those villages? Castles in Qinhe River Basin, Shanxi
Without contradictions, there would be no poets
Beijing News: Let’s start with a simple impression of R.S. Thomas. Looking at the portrait of the poet on the cover of the poetry collection "A Blackbird Is Singing", including some of his photos, his face is almost always serious and pensive, and some even reveal some kind of confrontation. Although this kind of "impression" cannot be used to define a person, this image seems to be able to partially explain a certain aspect of the poet's character. What do you think about this?
Li Yiliang (translator of "A Blackbird Is Singing"): My feelings are very similar to yours. Judging from the portraits and photos of R.S. Thomas, he seems to be a more serious than relaxed person. His expression is more solemn than ordinary. He sometimes shows arrogant and unapproachable characteristics - other people who have been close to him have had Similar accounts seem to confirm this. However, I read from his poems that R.S. Thomas also has a very humorous and witty side. His poems also reflect many moments of irony, but in any case, it is not the kind of frivolous irony.
For example, in "Drinking and Talking about Poetry at Night", the author obviously stands from a detached perspective and takes an ironic attitude towards the eloquent talk of two amateur poets in the bar. He humorously said that they "talked rhetorically, but all they used was prose." In "Welcome to Wales", it begins with an astonishing aphorism: "Welcome to Wales/Buried", and the tone of the whole poem is also ironic. However, R.S. Thomas is not a poet with outstanding irony style. He just does not reject irony and uses it from time to time. This also shows that he is not always nervous in his heart. His love for contemplation is consistent, and it should also be determined by his profession, whether as a priest or a poet.
"A Blackbird Is Singing: Selected Poems by R.S. Thomas", author: R.S. Thomas, translator: Li Yiliang, version: Yazhong Culture·Beijing United Publishing Company, March 2024.
Beijing News: As a Welshman, R.S. Thomas is a poet with a strong national consciousness. As you said in the postscript of the translation, this orientation is "not flattering". Why did Thomas develop such a strong sense of nationality as an important personal identity? How do you evaluate his nationality?
Li Yiliang: I think, first of all, this is because he is a Welshman. Although R.S. Thomas has been wandering around with his sailor father since he was a child, he studied in Wales and has been living in Wales. The people he interacts with are mainly from his own ethnic group. He is also keen on Welsh group activities. These public activities include Partly to win over Welsh interests. All this is naturally conducive to the formation of national consciousness in R.S. Thomas.
In addition, we know that Wales, as a nation, also has a glorious history of fighting for national freedom, but in this long process, the historical channel has merged with England instead of diverging. Objectively speaking, this alliance is in line with the historical requirements of national development. During the formation of the United Kingdom of Great Britain, Wales was the first to unite with England and had the closest relationship. For example, the United Kingdom has always retained a tradition that the first title of the heir to the British King is "Prince of Wales." As a conscious poet, it is impossible for R.S. Thomas not to know this. In R.S. Thomas's national consciousness, I don't see the element of exclusion or separation. I don't see this tendency. Rather, what he is least interested in is the intrusion of modern industrial civilization, which he shows a strong resistance to. Conservatism. National consciousness and nationality are only part of the content of R.S. Thomas's poetry. I think the proportion is not too large. Even if it is large, it is not a bad thing in terms of poetry, because it is obviously more conducive to enriching cultural diversity rather than the opposite. Whether readers like it or appreciate it is another matter.
In addition, I think that R.S. Thomas consciously pursues his national identity. Although he has always written poetry in English, he has also tried to write prose works in Welsh. The reason why he did not write poetry in Welsh may just be "unable". After all, poetry writing requires a higher degree of mastery of language. Welsh is a "foreign language" to him, which is something he has always been worried about.
Beijing News: "Wales" is an extremely important theme in R.S. Thomas's poems. Whether it is its ancient scenery, spiritual portraits of rural farmers, current situations, or long history, Thomas has written about it repeatedly. However, in different poems, or even in the same poem, the emotions he displays are not uniform, and sometimes even contradictory. For example, although he believed that the peasants in rural Wales had "dry souls", he also praised their "primitive state". Blame and praise are opposite but complementary in the poem. What do you think of this complexity in him?
Li Yiliang: Without contradictions, there would be no poets. It can be said that some internal contradictions are the fundamental driving force for poets to write. In the early poetry of R.S. Thomas, contradictions are more manifested in emotional entanglements and complex emotional opposition. However, these are all based on truth. Truth is the first requirement for every poet. Besides, no matter what the emotions are, Contradictions and complexity, the most fundamental of which are still love and compassion, understanding its complexity in this way just proves that R.S. Thomas is a true poet.
r.s. Thomas.
Highly suspicious of industrialization and the market economic system
Beijing News: "The Landscape from the Window" is a delicate and moving short poem, describing the mutual infiltration of the native Welsh scenery and the poet's soul: "The bruises of the clouds/are healed by the sunshine, The black mood/is covered with snow; the golden color of the evening/is the most uplifting to the soul. “What impact does the Welsh landscape have on the poet?
Li Yiliang: The nature, scenery and customs of Wales must have had a huge influence on the poet, and this influence lasted throughout his life. "The Landscape from the Window" is an early famous poem in this area; as of 1987, he also published a collection of poems entitled "Welsh Scenery". A poet's soul will always look for its "objective counterpart" to present it, and R.S. Thomas is no exception. The mountains, rivers, customs and customs of Wales formed his objective world, and were naturally his first choice. However, in his poems, the meaning of "nature", "landscape" and "style" itself always gives way to his concern for metaphysical themes (Creator or God). For example, in my opinion, "Landscape from the Window" The meaning of deism is higher than the landscape itself.
r.s. Thomas is a poet who is very sensitive to nature and landscape. Judging from his poems, he rarely leaves Wales, but whenever he goes out, he can harvest unique poems. , such as "Burgos", "Mediterranean", "To Prague" and so on.
Welsh landscape.(Picture/ic photo)
Beijing News: R.S. Thomas’s views on “the times” are also expressed in the poem. For example, the poem "Times" summarizes certain characteristics of the times with the refined opposition between "silence" and "huge noise" and the harmony of "buying" and "selling." Overall, what is Thomas's attitude toward modern society?
Li Yiliang: Speaking of which, the poem "Times" was the starting point for me to pay attention to the poetry of R.S. Thomas, thanks to Mr. Wang Zuoliang's translation. As a postgraduate student, my translation is not very different from Mr. Wang’s translation. Of course, this is first determined by the stipulation of the content of this short poem. As you said, this poem summarizes certain characteristics of the times. I feel that no great poet would dare to write such a title: First, is such a big title appropriate? Second, can a short poem be handled? However, R.S. Thomas wrote it into a famous poem. Technically speaking, the poem "Times" not only adopts R.S. Thomas' customary detached stance, but also uses irony. Thomas’s attitude towards modern society, I think, is fundamentally about disapproval or even contempt for the single value of England. He is highly skeptical of the social process represented by industrialization and the market economic system. There is particular dissatisfaction with the loss of national identity. His rebelliousness lies mainly here.
Beijing News: It is said that Thomas would "talk endlessly" about the evils of refrigerators, washing machines, televisions and other modern devices in his life. Refrigerators, washing machines, televisions and other equipment, especially mobile phones and computers, can be said to be things we take for granted in our lives, even to the point of being indispensable. How to understand that Thomas regards these "machines" as "evil"?
Li Yiliang: I don’t know much about this situation. If it is true, I can only think that this is an act of a maverick spiritual warrior "fighting the windmill". Today, each of us should feel the backlash of "machines" to a certain extent, but can we conclude that they are all "evil"? In a place like ours, which is largely in the "pre-modern" historical stage and is still pursuing modernization, this issue is too extravagant and too "post-modern".
An exploration of the spiritual conditions of the times
Beijing News: R.S. Thomas is a poet and a pastor, which inevitably makes him a religious poet. In the poem "The Deep Well" he said: "There are two hungers: the desire for bread / and the wild soul's desire for the grace of light." In the poem "Exploration" he said: "The best journey It is / inward. It is the calling of the heart." There are countless poems that directly write about the pursuit of God (or "absolute existence"). It can be said that this is the most important theme of life and poetry of R.S. Thomas, and most of his best poems are derived from it. It can be seen from the poem that R.S. Thomas's inward journey is as tortuous as the road in the external world. How do you understand and evaluate R.S. Thomas’s pursuit?
Li Yiliang: I agree with your judgment: most of his best poems are related to religious themes that have been on his mind throughout his life. Therefore, some people have commented that R.S. Thomas has advanced English metaphysical poetry to a new realm. The realization of this realm is mainly through his exploration of the spiritual conditions of the times, which is an exploration that combines new sensibility and new imagination, especially accompanied by R.S. Thomas's "anti-era" characteristics as a poet's subjectivity. His spiritual contradiction, struggle and transcendence; if we add something to this, it is his obvious "locality", that is, Welshness (although he is not a Welsh-language poet). In what seemed to be "shortcomings" and "weaknesses", R.S. Thomas achieved transcendence.
r.s. Thomas.
To put it clearly, it was in the place of inwardness, deep loneliness, and separation from the crowd that R.S. Thomas walked alone to a new realm, which required great courage and great talent.Of course, R.S. Thomas also made use of many poetic, ideological, and spiritual resources, such as Yeats, American poetry, and existential philosophy, and this is just a simple list. I have an analogy: R.S. Thomas is a poet who only digs one deep well. He digs it deep enough that it is easy to forget that he is actually a very broad poet. So, I must revise my statement now: the poet R.S. Thomas did not only know how to dig a deep well.
Beijing News: "A Poet" is a confession by R.S. Thomas. In the poem, he said: "As a spokesman for art without arrogance, he teaches the true purpose of flying, which is to be sensitive, but to the inner feelings Light cannot be ignored and must be kept on the most delicate track." It seems that he is trying to achieve a delicate balance between the art of poetry (sensitivity) and faith (inner light). However, this also implies a contradiction between the two. What do you think of R.S. Thomas's contradiction on this point?
Li Yiliang: If I talk about contradictions, I mean what happened to R.S. Thomas in the early days, and what caused this contradiction was not so much the spiritual level as it was the reality: this situation changed quickly. Divine redemption and aesthetic redemption finally reached an agreement with R.S. Thomas. Especially after his retirement, the unity became clearer. He clearly wrote, "The meaning of existence lies in art." At least as far as he is concerned, divine redemption is already contained in aesthetic redemption.
Beijing News: As a translator, through studying the original English text of the poet, what do you think are the important characteristics of R.S. Thomas’s poetic language?
Li Yiliang: r.s. Thomas's poetic language is generally pure, elegant and elegant modern English, tending to the spoken language of educated people. Rhetorically, he focuses on metaphor (perhaps a little too much). In terms of rhythm, his poems have a rhythm based on recitative (rather than aria), so the effect of visual or silent reading is better than the effect of recitation. This feature does facilitate translation. However, since Chinese and English are ideographic characters and phonetic characters respectively, differences and losses in translation are inevitable. In addition, because I care about the "expression" of the translation, I may lose some of the advantages of the original language. I always have a kind reminder to readers: when reading translated poems, you must first be mentally prepared to chew sugarcane bagasse, and secondly, you must have the cherishment of "sweetness" you had in your childhood. Maybe this is the translator’s own escape route?
"The Last"
Author/R.S. Thomas
Translator/Li Yiliang
There are only a few things: a chair,
a table, a bed for
to pray beside,
and also, picked up from the seaside. The coming
bone-like cross-shaped branches
prove that nature
recognizes that Christ once suffered.
I stayed at the window all night,
the window was not too small,
it could be a picture frame for the stars,
they were not further away from me
than the
city lights that I rejected.
Those passers-by during the day, they are not
pilgrims either, their gaze
through the bar in the rain, see me
as if I were a
prisoner of this scene, and I have been released by the wavering
truth,
So, now The low heart
will be in a perfect state tomorrow.
Editor/Zhang Jin
Editor/Zouzao
Proofreader/Liu Baoqing
