Interface News Reporter | Yin Qinglu
Interface News Editor | Jiang Yan
Zhang Yi and Sun Tan are two young screenwriters floating in Beijing. They thought they had written a wonderful script, so they went to different film and television companies for meetings. , from summer to winter, until the script changed beyond recognition, Zhang Yi suffered from anxiety, and even the protagonist changed from a human to a dog, and the project failed to go online.
The above scene is the norm for domestic screenwriters, and " Galaxy Writer ", which was released at the end of March, brought it to the big screen. This is a film with a rather vertical perspective, telling a "Party B story" that many people can resonate with. Starring Song Muzi , He Wenjun, and Li Fei are well-known to the audience through " Annual Comedy Competition ", but they are not big-name actors. But it is such a film that became the dark horse of the 2023 Xining First Youth Film Festival and won a lot of praise. Directors Li Kuo and Shan Dandan won the Jury Prize and Best Screenplay Award for this film.
"Galaxy Writer" poster. Image source: Douban
Shan Dandan has a Master of Arts from Peking University, and Li Kuo graduated from the Performance Department of Communication University. The two are husband and wife and partners. They spend most of their time as commissioned screenwriters, writing scripts according to the needs of Party A. Also because of their long-term perspective of Party B, they know what the audience likes to watch. The comedy baggage and plot twists of "Galaxy Writer" are very smooth, even so smooth that it doesn't look like a debut. This is also a rough but real work, even so real that it makes people laugh: the producer fooled them into revising the draft, and the producer's signature was enlarged every time he changed it; the two lived in a regular camp where screenwriters gathered, and imagined The film will be shot in the next second; in order to sell a movie ticket for the Beijing Film Festival's " The Dark Knight ", a WeChat group was opened for a prize competition. Only by answering correctly "What is the Joker's first line?" ticket. These industry memes and cinephile memes all come from the director's real experiences. The same watch that appeared in the movie " interstellar " was a gift from Shan Dandan to Li Kuo.
On the occasion of the release of "Galaxy Writer", Jiemian News (id: booksandfun) interviewed Shan Dandan and Li Kuo to discuss the ecology of domestic screenwriters based on the plot.
Screenwriting is the job furthest from the film and television industry
Interface News: Dandan mentioned in a previous interview that he worked diligently as a screenwriter for Party A for ten years, but when he wrote "Galaxy Writer", he "left everything behind" ". Why did you want to make a film about the ecology of screenwriters? How was your mentality and what you wanted to express when you created " Galaxy " different from your previous work?
Li Kuo: First of all, it’s because we worked on the last script for two and a half years but didn’t finish it. The protagonist is a 50-year-old middle-aged man, and he also has an 18-year-old daughter. These two characters are too far away from us and cannot be entered in any case. Later, during the topic selection meeting, director Dandan said that she had a novel "There is a Changllywood in Beijing", which has not been completed and has not been published. We thought it would be better to write about ourselves, so "Galaxy Writer" was born.
A recent photo of Li Kuo. Picture source: Anle Pictures
Shan Dandan: In the past, when I was a commissioned screenwriter, I was to help others with a confirmed project. "Galaxy Writer" is what I want to express. I don't need to consider other people's feelings. My true feelings are the most important. , we feel that the ecosystem of screenwriters is like this, so just do it this way.
In fact, 90% of screenwriters work on commissioned projects, which guarantees an income, which is a 10% deposit. The screenwriters take the deposit back home to create and write outlines. But for original projects, you are responsible for yourself, and you need to finish writing the script before going to the employer. It sounds great to express yourself, but the consequence is that no one may care about the script. Therefore, unless there is a work that you particularly want to express, or you are a great screenwriter with previous works, and you have accurate control of the market, you will create an original script.
Li Kuo: has been ten years, and it has indeed reached the point where we need to test ourselves. I always feel that no one gives me a chance, so should I continue to do this? If you think you can fight, you have to get into the ring at least once.This time it was a gamble. Only after I finished it did I know whether I had no talent or no chance.
Recent photos of Shan Dandan. Image source: Anle Pictures
Interface News: The main line of the movie is "revising the script". Two young screenwriters changed the script from summer to winter until they gave up. How common is this inability to produce work among screenwriters? Some viewers believe that "Galaxy" is like the embodiment of the film and television industry in the Beijing workers' mutual aid document. For example, anyone can make a single change to their own script, and the producer signs off as the screenwriter, but suffers from anxiety because he cannot make changes to the script.
dandandan: is very common. Today, a magazine invited us to shoot and said that we could invite five other screenwriter friends to participate, preferably those with influence and masterpieces. We searched through our circle of friends and found that none of the friends around us had much influence, so we had to ask the magazine if we could come for a photo shoot if we didn’t have any works. For many screenwriters, there may never be a magazine willing to interview them and hear their stories. The magazine was very moved after hearing this and said that they would shoot the screenwriter. But in the past few years, everyone has not been idle. Screenwriting is a job that requires a lot of learning and accumulation.
Li Kuo: The span of seasons is also based on real life. We are often immersed in writing. We write for a long time without going downstairs, and we don’t read the hot searches on Weibo at all. One day when we went downstairs to throw out the garbage and get takeout, we suddenly found that the flowers were blooming and the grass was green. So I put it into the video through artistic processing - I was still eating watermelon at home, but when I opened the door and saw it was snowing, it felt like I was in another world.
Shan Dandan: In my opinion, screenwriting is the job type farthest away from this circle in the film and television industry. Unlike other types of work, the screenwriter can work in the crew. He only faces a computer every day, and occasionally holds meetings with planners and producers. If one day he can meet the director and actors, it will be a great thing. It means that The project was promoted.
Stills from "Galaxy Writer". Picture source: Douban
Interface News: This can also be seen in the film. Sun Tan and Zhang Yi live in Changying where film and television practitioners gather. They don’t usually have to go to the company, so they regard a certain cafe as their "unit". A certain restaurant is used as a "canteen", where many people discuss multi-million dollar projects every day. I live on Qingnian Road nearby. What kind of place is Changying? What are your feelings about this place?
Li Kuo: Changying is a very down-to-earth and down-to-earth place. Its positioning can be seen from the iconic shopping malls here. There are some affordable luxury brands and art spaces in Chaoyang Joy City on Qingnian Road. The structure is very irregular. But Changyingtian Street in Changying does not have these, and it is a large straight passage, running from east to west, so people will never get lost.
The reason why Changying has become a gathering place for film and television practitioners is that there are many film and television industrial parks nearby, and Communication University is located in Shuangqiao near Changying. The second reason is that Changying is the last stop for Beijing drifters to enjoy the bustling urban area. The rent is not high and the transportation is convenient. You can take Line 6 and run east-west through Beijing. Beyond Changying is Tongzhou, and inward is Baiziwan. When it comes to Baiziwan, everyone will think of the little stars and Internet celebrities here, but Changying gives people a very grassroots feeling. There is a famous base for Beipiao in Chaoyang District, which is the community "Beijing Pixel", which is just a building. There are about 50 households in a corridor of the building, door to door. In "Galaxy Writer", Sun Tan and Zhang Yi went to deliver food to experience life. The filming location was Beijing Pixel. There was a scene where the two of them looked at so many densely packed windows and suddenly got lost. We wanted the whole story and location to be real, not to make it airy.
Shan Dandan: In fact, the entire Chaoyang District is full of film and television practitioners. The lowest level of "ankle" practitioners live in Changying. Those who are more successful can advance and can move to the University Town and Qingnian Road.
Li Kuo: There are also many film and television professionals living in Qingnian Road, but the rent is more expensive than in Changying, which means that the people living there are doing better than Changying (laughing). I have lived in Changying for 9 years, and Director Dandan has lived here for 5 years.I am used to living here, so I like it here, just like asking why you like your hometown. This is a question of getting used to it.
Stills from "Galaxy Writer". Image source: Douban
interface news: Zhang Yi and Sun Tan both faced torture from Party A, but their personalities were different - Sun Tan chose to continue in the industry, Zhang Yigeng was arrogant, but also The first thing I feel is confusion and numbness. Can you share your thoughts when imagining these two characters? How much of them are true reflections of themselves?
Li Kuo: These two characters refer to us and one of the screenwriters, Teacher Gao Qun. Sun Tan studied geological exploration in college. At the end of the movie, he said that he knew the coordinates of a soapstone located in Inner Mongolia. These were Gao Qun's real experiences. After the abortion of the last script, the three of us were very sad. Sitting in a bun shop, Gao Qun mentioned the soapstone and said that if it didn't work, we would open the stone and see if there was any money. Of course, it was impossible to really go to war, so this plot was put into the movie.
Sun Tan made reference to Gao Qun's character. He is a good old man and a warm man. Zhang Yi referred to my characteristics. For example, I like Nolan very much. Sometimes I am very sure of my own talent, and sometimes I fall into doubt and retreat.
Shan Dandan: But neither director Li Kuo nor director Gao Qun likes to change, they both like to stick to themselves. I am willing to try my best to make modifications according to Party A's requirements, and the character Zhou Keke in the film is also based on myself.
Interface News: Although this is a movie about the dilemma of creators, it does not criticize Party A one-sidedly, but presents the perspectives of both parties. For example, the girl from the producer seems picky, but she will speak out about her responsibilities. Just avoid risks. This is very different from the ending in "The Annual Meeting Can't Stop", where the workers ushered in victory. Can you talk about your thoughts on setting up this part of the plot?
Shan Dandan: When first started filming, Li Kuo said that Party A should not be written in such a bad light, as he would have to make a living in the industry in the future (laughs). But this is just a joke. In fact, for the screenwriter, the most painful thing is not that Party A is unreliable. In this case, we can just leave, and there will only be ridicule and sarcasm in our hearts. The most painful thing is that you think Party A's suggestion is quite reasonable and he is also doing it for the good of the project. At this time, the pressure is put on the screenwriter. If you don't accept it, you will become a sinner. If you accept it, you will castrate yourself.
Even the seemingly bad producer Baylor always made unreasonable demands and packaged himself as the chief screenwriter. After he lost his job, he was just an ordinary Didi driver, and he even enthusiastically followed Zhang Yi and others said that the male protagonist in the script must be changed to 40 years old, and they still insisted on their opinions at the time. In his opinion, he sincerely believed that this was good for the script, and it was not a magical or random change.
The female planner in the movie is also very real. We found that most of the planners in the company are girls, because the work of reading scripts requires meticulousness and patience, and many people studied film in school. They work in the company to hone their planning experience in order to become screenwriters in the future. So in the film, Zhang Yi scolded her, "If you have the ability, you can be a screenwriter." The girl cried because she actually wanted to be a screenwriter too. So facing Party A like this, you can't even hate him, and you can't even love him.
Stills from "Galaxy Writer". Image source: Douban
Hollywood blockbusters failed because everyone guessed the routine
Interface News: The magic touch in the film is to use a short video to deconstruct the "metronome" of "Save the Cat". There is an impressive line: " A good screenwriter must both follow and seem to lose the metronome.” "Galaxy" embodies this sentence - words such as "characters", "plot" and "character growth" are directly embedded into the film, but they are deconstructed midway. What is the general view of screenwriters on routines? Love and hate it?
Shan Dandan: It’s hard to talk about love or hate, but the metronome is indeed a tool. It refers to 15 story nodes. Marvel movies strictly follow this rule and accurately present it within minutes.But why do Hollywood blockbusters fail? Because everyone can guess the plot, but if the story has no foreshadowing, lows and highs, the audience will not like it. Therefore, a good screenwriter must not only follow the basic narrative routine, but also weave in details so that the audience does not feel the routine. All good screenwriters are trying to break through this problem, and so are we.
Li Kuo: Although Marvel movies have declined, the most popular movies today are still the "Guardians of the Galaxy" series, with high ratings because it is the only one in Marvel that strives to innovate and try to go against the routine. "Save the cat" is the industry's holy grail. It is the theory that no matter how annoying the protagonist is, as long as he saves a stray cat in the opening scene, he is a lovable character. Save the Cat and Metronome are things that cannot be avoided in the screenwriting industry, but in order to allow audiences outside the industry to get it, we thought of using Douyin to present the movie.
People who talk about movies on Douyin will cut a 120-minute movie into 3 minutes because they are stuck on the metronome. This type of short video will never talk about the process, but only the important points in the advancement of the story, such as who went out and immediately stabbed someone else with a knife. We usually watch short videos, but at the same time we feel helpless and deeply disgusted by them, so why not use this method to make fun of short videos and "pay tribute" to them.
Interface News: Zhou Keke’s role is also very interesting. She is better able to adapt to a high-pressure work environment. She has no complaints even if the work distribution is unreasonable. In the end, she is the first to have her own work. She will say, "Screenwriting is a service industry. Only when things are done can we talk about art." Is this your immediate thought? What do you think of the saying “liberal arts is a service industry”?
Shan Dandan: This line of was written in 2022. In fact, the phrase "liberal arts is a service industry" had not yet appeared at that time. We usually laugh at ourselves like this. The crew's clothes have "Advanced Workers in the Service Industry" written on them.
We have faced this dilemma since we entered the industry. Should we be a tool person who makes changes here and there, or should we be a screenwriter with our own expression? These two states are expressed through Zhou Keke and Zhang Yi, making everyone realize that no matter which path they choose, it is difficult to choose, but they are both growing.
Stills from "Galaxy Writer". Image source: Douban
Li Kuo: I agree with this sentence. At least in the early days of your career, you have to serve Party A well. There are also successful screenwriters around me. They may not be much more capable than me, but they know how to get along with Party A. For example, we sometimes work behind closed doors and create an outline that we think is particularly good, but when we show it to Party A, we receive a lot of criticism. But he will involve Party A when writing the script. Even if Party A has any objections, he can cut them off at an early stage. He will not wait until he has written 20,000 words before Party A rejects them entirely. In addition, when Party A participates in the creation, he will rarely deny himself. This requires the ingenuity of the service industry to think beyond their talents and think of other ways of communication.
Shan Dandan: But on the other hand, for screenwriters with certain abilities and works, I really hope that everyone will throw away this sentence and make expressive works. In order to prevent the market from being filled with works that are “related to me”, screenwriters need to do diversified things. If there is a very fresh script and Party A finds it interesting after reading it, it can also promote the development of the industry, right? Last time at the Peking University post-screening session of "Galaxy Writers", teacher Dai Jinhua first affirmed that "liberal arts is a service industry". This is a fact, but she still hopes that after learning this, all liberal arts creators must use this sentence Throwing away words cannot last a lifetime as truth.
Zhang Yi is contrary to this sentence. He is going to hit the wall and is willing to be smashed to pieces. We cannot laugh at him just because he failed in the end. When I watch Zhang Yi, I feel that this is really a fool, ridiculous, but also a little cute. I think every creator can find his own moment in him.
I asked an audience member if he liked Zhang Yi, and he said he didn’t really like it because it looked too much like him.Some viewers think they are Zhou Keke and believe that the career plan for adults is to learn first and then grow, instead of always screwing with Party A. I asked the audience again, would you like to make friends with Zhang Yi? He said I was willing, because he had persevered that he could not do - if he said that a script must be shot by Jiang Wen, they would definitely think he was ridiculous, but if he still said that seven or eight years later, then he might ask Jiang Wen to shoot it. Let him have a meal, because the world is changed by people like this.
Interface News: The movie emphasizes many times that "reality is not like a story, it just has no foreshadowing." For example, Pest (played by Li Fei) was betrayed by his girlfriend without any warning, and the actor committed suicide without any warning. It also contradicts the arc of character growth and believes that "the characters have not grown." Why is this so emphasized? At the end of the film, the two were so desperate that they wanted to return to their hometown, but they came up with another script - and then they were back to where they were at the beginning. Is this also some kind of portrayal of the screenwriter?
Shan Dandan: I was particularly impressed. When I held a script meeting on my first day as a screenwriter, I put down my schoolbag and heard everyone talking: What is the rationality for the characters to do this? Then I realized that when writing a character's actions, the screenwriter must first lay out the psychological preparation so that the audience can understand it. But often when we come up with a great idea, we fall into silence after saying it, because we have to constantly find reasons and motivations for him. This process makes me very painful. This has always been the Damocles hanging over the screenwriter's head. Sword of Si. Therefore, since we want to write about this profession, we must write about the pain of this profession. At least the screenwriter will approve it after reading it.
As for whether "Start Again" is a cycle of the screenwriter, I think of course it is. For screenwriters, when a project fails, what can really make us stand up and resurrect is to invest in the next project. Isn't it the same in life? Everyone knows that we have some weaknesses, but they are difficult to change. We constantly push ourselves to break through certain limits, but we may never be able to break through. This can be as small as our living habits. For example, I love drinking iced lattes, and my mother has always told me that being so wet is bad for my health. Of course I know these truths, but I just can’t change them.
Li Kuo: The characters must grow, the plot must not have bugs, and the character lines must be clear. These are the high-frequency statements we heard during meetings, so "the characters have not grown up" is purely a personal rebellion and fun, and the audience I thought Zhang Yi had finally begun to grow and reflect: Maybe Baylor is not such a good producer, and I am not such a good screenwriter, so I should be more modest. Unexpectedly, after a while, Zhang Yi still didn't listen to anyone. After
was screened at the Xining First Film Festival last year, many viewers said they liked the phrase "the characters have not grown up." We found that everyone resonated with this topic, because for many people, it is cool to stick to and maintain the original intention. thing.
Stills from "Galaxy Writer". Image source: Douban
Interface News: Are you worried that the anti-climactic story setting will weaken its tension? Especially when everyone prefers to watch movies that have a "feeling" feeling?
Shan Dandan: To be honest, I have never thought about this issue before. After all, he is a new director and has not dealt with the market yet. Now I find that the audience does like this kind of (cool film), and the market response has already given the answer. This will also feed back into our next work, because genre films need to make the conflict of events more intense. There is no way around it. It is becoming increasingly difficult to attract audiences to buy a ticket and enter the cinema.
Interface News: I’m also curious, when “anti-routine” becomes a new routine, how do screenwriters come up with attractive stories?
Shan Dandan: does not necessarily have to go against the routine. First of all, it must attract the audience through plot conflicts. Second, we must empathize with the audience to the greatest extent possible.
My feeling is that the movies that audiences like to watch now must be "related to me". They may also click on things that have nothing to do with them, but it is too difficult to convert them into a movie ticket.So, if we really have a good business-themed story, we need to empathize with the audience and strictly follow the metronome. Of course, if there are serious social issues to express, don't think about strong events or metronomes. You can't make the movie very profound and at the same time blame the audience for not buying tickets. This is a very real problem.
Audience tastes have been changing throughout the history of movies
Interface News: Emphasizing "it's about me" is a big movie-watching trend. Does this cause trouble to you? "Galaxy Writer" is about the screenwriter ecology, and it has nothing to do with the lives of most viewers.
Li Kuo: In fact, the tastes of audiences have been changing throughout the history of movies. Today we talk about the proliferation of superheroes. The last time a similar phenomenon happened was with Westerns - all Americans in that era were making Westerns, so no one was making them in this genre anymore. As for Chinese commercial films, they only started in the 1990s. They have a relatively short history and don’t have much experience to follow. But in my opinion, it’s a good thing that people like movies with emotional resonance, because the most popular films in the 1990s made people’s blood boil. Movies that satisfy sensory stimulation, such as car chases on the highway, have now passed this stage.
Shan Dandan: We are not so worried because the market will make choices and adjustments. In the past few years, fictional comedies were very popular, but now no one wants to watch them, preferring realism. Later, pure realism was not enough, and people had to be able to empathize with it.
From this point of view, "Galaxy Writer" is indeed a movie that is difficult to define. It does not have strong genres or strong emotions, but you can call it literary and artistic, and there is nothing incomprehensible. It is still a popular comedy. In the past few days, teachers in the industry have joked that this is a very "rare" film - people have watched a lot of films related to me, and suddenly they saw a film made by a group of screenwriters, and it was liked by many people. , and the screenwriter is a forgotten and marginalized group even in his own circle. The significance of this alone makes this film very special.
Interface News: Finally, share with us some interesting audience feedback.
Li Kuo: Some viewers would find bugs in the film, which made me speechless. He said that the script "Seven Seconds Man" written by Sun Tan and Zhang Yi is about a person who only has 7 seconds of memory, so how can he deliver food? I can’t even remember which unit building I am in, and I may even forget that I am a delivery boy.
Shan Dandan: It can be seen how rough this script is. Including the story of the bloodstone that finally brought them back together, this is just an ordinary road movie. Zhang Yi gritted his teeth and came up with the name "Crazy Bloodstone". The audience laughed and thought, do you still need to come up with it? So these two screenwriters are really nothing (laughs).
