Text | Silicon Valley 101 Starting in July this year, tens of thousands of union members in the Hollywood film industry will vote on a new round of union agreements. The members negotiating this year are from the International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employees (IA union, ful

| Silicon Valley 101

Starting in July this year, tens of thousands of union members in the Hollywood film industry will vote on a new round of union agreements.

The members negotiating this year are from the International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employees (ia union, full name is international alliance of theatrical stage employees), which includes about 60,000 film and television practitioners, covering script coordination, camera assistants to sound editors and concepts There are dozens of different professions such as designers, most of whom are behind-the-scenes staff.

Members of the art union, headed by concept artists and storyboard artists, are intensely discussing new contract terms, trying to standardize and define the use of AIGC software and materials in their work.

The 2023 Hollywood actor and screenwriter strike lasted for 5 months. One of the reasons was the invasion of generative AI. Although the strike took a huge toll on Hollywood, some key terms were reached.

For actors, for example, studios must obtain their consent to create and use digital replicas of them, and pay them based on the time it takes to physically act in the material.

For screenwriters, AI-generated content cannot be used as the screenwriter’s original material and cannot weaken the screenwriter’s signature rights and other specific rights to protect the author’s copyright from being destroyed by AI; the screenwriter can decide whether to use AI tools, but the film studio cannot It is mandatory for screenwriters to use AI. In this round of negotiations on

, members of the ia union believe that the new agreement does not provide similar protection for their works and workflows, and that the creations in the design, modeling, illustration, etc. processes will be affected. They worry that producers will use AIGC tools to save production costs and hire fewer union members.

"Avatar: The Way of Water" chief creature designer Zach Berger and others believe that the lack of clear restrictions on the use of AI in the contract may lead to the artist's style and data being used for AI training.

In this episode, Silicon Valley 101 had an in-depth conversation with Li Anran, a member of the Los Angeles Art Union, and discussed the basic safeguards provided by the art union for employees, as well as the far-reaching impact of technological changes on the film and television industry.

01 It is also difficult to standardize the use of AI tools in new negotiations

"Silicon Valley 101": Please first introduce your background and resume, including what kind of projects you have worked on?

Li Anran: is good. I grew up in Beijing. When I was an undergraduate, I went to Parsons School of Art and Design in New York to study interior design. After graduating from undergraduate degree, I went directly to the American Film Institute in Los Angeles to continue studying film art design. After graduation, I worked on some major Hollywood teams, such as the first season of "Star Trek: Picard", and worked as an art assistant on some TV series at Universal Studios. After

, I did some dramas for Disney and Hulu, both as an art director. After doing this, I joined the Art Guild. What everyone has heard about recently is "The Lion King: The Legend of Mufasa", which is the prequel to "The Lion King", directed by Barry Jenkins, the director of "Moonlight". In the recently released live-action version of "Lilo and Stitch", I worked as an assistant artist. I also worked as the special effects art director for Netfilx's "Moon Rebels" before.

"Silicon Valley 101": Did you participate in the Screen Actors Guild and Screenwriters Guild's strike last year?

Li Anran: cannot be regarded as participation. Our actors union, art union, writers, directors, etc. are all affiliated to the International Alliance of Theater and Stage Employees (iatse). If they are on strike, those who want to continue to work can continue to work. But after the Screenwriters Guild went on strike at that time, if the script still needed to be written by a screenwriter, there would definitely be no way to proceed without a screenwriter. It is impossible to say that if there is no screenwriter, just find an assistant or someone to write it. It is definitely not possible to continue.

But if there was a strike yesterday, the script has been finalized today and can be filmed. There is no need for the screenwriter to make any modifications. In fact, such a series can continue to be filmed.

I remember when the Writers Guild went on strike, we were filming the live-action movie in Hawaii, so we could continue filming. After they stopped for a while, someone said that if people from the Screenwriters Guild brought a strike sign and found your filming location, they would stand there and say that we are on strike now. As a member of the Art Guild, you are considered as In fact, we cannot cross a union that supports their strike.

"Silicon Valley 101": is like their human flesh setting a line for you.

Li Anran: Yes, we call it the picket line (strike picket line). Where they stand, we cannot cross. So they were standing there at Warner Bros. or Universal Pictures. As people who supported him, you could stand there with them, or you wouldn't be able to proceed with the next step of filming and so on.

"Silicon Valley 101": So if a union starts a strike, it will affect the work site of other colleagues, or the progress of the work.

Li Anran: When the writers of first went on strike, they said that for AI or machine learning tools, they did not say how to use them or at what stage they could be used.

Because of the profession of screenwriting, including in this industry in the United States, I only gained a certain understanding of it after I came here. There are very clear rules on when they can use curse words to discuss the script in the writers' room. Otherwise, if you are still cursing people after leaving this working state, everyone will feel that it is a bit of workplace harassment, and they are very demanding.

So when this kind of tool comes out, everyone will think that this thing needs to be restricted. The Actors Guild went on strike last year because it affected their most basic income. The first one is income guarantee and streaming media. Online broadcast platforms such as Netflix need to establish new regulations, including how to pay. wait. Another reason for

is that after the AI ​​tools come out, some restrictive terms need to be put forward to ensure their profits and rights, as well as the quality of their creations.

"Silicon Valley 101": I recently saw a survey by "Variety". The first few listed were animators, visual effects, game development, dubbing and concept artists. These are the positions most affected by AIGC. Several All are members of the art department. Is this the main reason for your negotiations this year?

Research on the impact of generative AI on the work of creative workers, source: variety intelligence platform

Li Anran: The reason why our union is talking about is because the current union agreement expires on July 31. Every three years the basic agreement of our union will be readjusted. Talking about AI will definitely be involved this year because there was no such provision in the previous agreement. Our union includes concept artists and storyboard artists, who are the artists who draw storyboards and storyboards. Many people really don’t like it very much and don’t support this new contract.

The content of the new terms is relatively straightforward: if you want to use this tool, you need to report it to the producer of the film. Many concept artists will feel that this is very general and does not involve specific creative matters.

02 Hand-drawing by top concept artists is faster and more practical than computers

"Silicon Valley 101": What does an concept artist usually do? In what aspect of film and television production do they play a role?

Li Anran: actually has a great influence in many aspects, because the overall responsibility of the art department is actually to convert that language or text into a visual effect.

Sometimes when the producer has no concept, he needs to judge how much the advertisement will cost to shoot. If he hires some storyboard artists, he can see how many shots will be shot and what will be involved. Such scenes and so on.

If you want to be as detailed as your furnishings, scenery, props, etc., you may need a concept artist to do an overall design. Specific to the art department, in the early preparation period, concept painters can actually become art directors.

So the art director is talking to the director, photographer, and producer about the story and the direction of the entire movie. At this time, the concept artist becomes a team member who can show the scene that the art director wants to present.

Sometimes it’s not about how beautiful a picture is, but whether it can express the meaning that the art director wants to convey to the director, and then get approval. So in fact, there are a lot of discussions and things to talk about, and it is necessary to ensure that this conceptualization can be implemented. This is one of the more difficult points in "conceptual painting" in my opinion.

"Silicon Valley 101": We saw a picture. Although it is good-looking or cool, it may not necessarily help the crew or the art and director to carry out their work. Then it may not be qualified for your work.

Li Anran: is correct, so the biggest difficulty in my work is actually this, because everyone can draw very well. But for every art director, their needs are different. Sometimes they just make a preliminary sketch, and there is no need to draw it so neatly and completely.

Sometimes you need this painting to attract the director and hope that he will approve the scene to be built; sometimes you hope that what he draws can be captured by the camera.

"Silicon Valley 101": Have you ever worked with concept artists? Does it have an impact on your work whether they use AI or not?

Li Anran: Each concept artist’s working methods and their own workflow may be different. For example, if it is drawn by hand without using a computer, if it reaches the speed when generating the picture, it is actually not comparable to these people.

has a new batch of concept artists. Sometimes when the director or the artist gives them reference pictures, they are actually some generated reference pictures, but the artist will definitely tell them that this is generated. Whatever he likes and dislikes about the picture, he will definitely let him know clearly.

"Silicon Valley 101": Going back to the latest agreement we were talking about, the latest news I saw is that a temporary agreement was actually passed, but some union members called on everyone not to agree. I would like to ask what is the main contention related to AI?

Li Anran: people have repeatedly asked about the use of this tool, because Adobe or some software design companies have put this tool into their software. The argument that some people have is that this thing will replace me, and with this in the future, we won't be hired.

Some younger painters who have been working for many years are arguing about whether there will be less space for their own creations. Or will there be directors or designers who just come over with the generated paintings and say, just draw a few more pictures for me based on this. It’s just that the creativity of using your own brain, or thinking about visual effects, has been reduced.

There are also some people who can improve their speed a lot because of this tool. Because everyone is saying that with this thing, the working hours will be increased by 20% or something, and they will have incredible expectations, thinking that I can generate it so quickly. They will worry about whether they are too slow, and then they will be criticized or waited for, and they feel that their jobs are not guaranteed. Our agreement does not go into great detail about some of the details under these specific scenarios.

"Silicon Valley 101": Are you satisfied with this round of discussion about 's demands for AI or this kind of tool?

Li Anran: In fact, I am not very satisfied with . I think it is not very good in general, because I feel that there are many things that you want to control now, but it is too late. Many things in

have lost their opportunities in the past time. Why didn’t we go on strike when the Screen Actors Guild went on strike? It just didn't have this opportunity and missed it. The things you are talking about about

may end up being that there is no so-called restrictive environment and scenario, and it does not say that it cannot be used. So I feel that the current terms are nothing more than leaving the unknowns of the future to ourselves to experience personally, and there are no terms set in advance for us to protect, so I am not very satisfied.

"Silicon Valley 101": Who owns the copyright of your works?

Li Anran: is the producer. This has been owned by the producers a long time ago. For example, DC comics, etc., these copyrights may belong to them, or the characters produced, even if they are designed by a concept artist, will not belong to the concept artist.

includes some derivatives generated based on this character in the future, such as Lego toys, etc. These will not be owned by the artist. This protection has been lost a long time ago.

Actors, screenwriters and directors are above the line. They are not like the workers behind the scenes, so their contract negotiation methods are different from ours. We, the filming and staff members, are relatively behind the scenes.

"Silicon Valley 101": You don't think AIGC can replace your people or colleagues, right?

Li Anran: is right, it cannot replace it. This is something I have always been very sure of. Why I keep saying this thing is a tool is actually because, before this thing is widely used, a concept artist who can only use PS to draw will not be able to change as quickly as an artist who knows 3D modeling, Maya and other software.

Now these AI tools are out. For me, whether they are used or not, it is a feeling and concept of speeding up. It should only make fast people faster.

"Silicon Valley 101": Will the directors or people in other departments such as photography and costumes who work with your art department be troubled by the content generated by AI?

Li Anran: When it comes to photography, there may be some lighting problems. The

art director uses his professional ability to predict in advance whether a concept drawing can become a scene for future construction and shooting. So when you create a picture and show it to a photography director, if you can't tell what kind of lens it is and what kind of light it produces, it's a big problem.

is also used in prop production. Sometimes it generates a concept drawing, such as a knife or a sword or a prop. When it is generated, you need to laser cut it, and you need a machine to cut it, etc. What kind of lines are needed? The person who drew the picture has to draw it again.

When he looks at this concept painting, he will feel that many hooks and pens are just for the sake of appearance. It is not detailed enough to know what the pattern of the picture itself looks like. It can only play a conceptual role. The same thing applies to clothing. It looks like metal, which does not mean that you know how the metal is jointed. It can only serve as a reference value.

So in the end, it has to do with the work process of the film industry. The person who comes up with the concept is not necessarily the person who actually implements it and implements it. Different problems may arise in each link. This may also be why our union’s terms and conditions are ineffective. It’s so specific because you can’t explain all the environmental factors in one clause.

"Silicon Valley 101": does not seem to be a problem with AI. Even if people communicate with designers and actual implementation people, there will be deviations. There is actually a gap between what you imagine and whether you can do it. bridged. Maybe AI is just another form of presentation here.

Li Anran: is right, because I think if we say it is widely used, it is difficult to say whether Hollywood is "widely used". It cannot fully demonstrate a process of production in our entire industry, because it is not one of the production processes. link. "Silicon Valley 101": Recently, there are many AI companies on the Internet that are engaged in video generation. They have even produced some short films, cartoons, etc. without using traditional film and television processes at all. As a professional, how do you evaluate this? Content and content that you are producing? Li Anran: Cameron once said when this thing came out: In the end, it depends on who can tell the story. In the end, everyone will be willing to stay for a long time, it must be because its story is fascinating. For example, with so many TV series produced, isn't "The Legend of Zhen Huan" still very popular in China? Those were all dramas from more than 10 years ago. "Silicon Valley 101": , you should look at this matter more objectively. Because you mentioned that some people have this kind of panic. Li Anran: Yes, they have , but this panic is not something we have today. It is a phased development. For example, many years ago, Disney started by hand-drawing pictures one by one and then moving them. This is the most basic animation production method.

If you think that if you use computers, then we "have no meaning of existence, we have been replaced", then maybe your speed cannot keep up with others. Nowadays, there are a lot of computer-generated animations, but that doesn’t mean that your hand-drawn animations are worthless.

For example, Hayao Miyazaki, he only started to learn how to draw with a computer in recent years. Because he has always felt that the computer automatically generates things frame by frame, often missing frames. This detail has nothing to do with whether you use a computer to draw or draw by hand. It doesn't matter at all.

For example, among the construction painters I know now, they still draw by hand, and they don’t know how to use 3D. But due to his speed or the style of his painting, for example, European castles are all arcs, and they require shading. These painters' drawings can be directly generated into a proportional drawing, which can be given to the sculptor. If you use a computer to draw, you may not finish it in two or three weeks.

"Silicon Valley 101": This is true for all industries. You have your own "moat" of skills, and no tool can replace you.

Li Anran: In fact, I think the concept painters I met are all very good. I have never worked with any of them who were not good at drawing. Each of them is "picking their own bones within the egg." They might just sketch that step and shock a bunch of people.

"Silicon Valley 101": Can you introduce to everyone what the daily work of a concept artist is like? What is their approximate salary level?

Li Anran: In fact, the salary of concept artists is very unstable, depending on whether you are working on a film produced under a union system, a smaller one, or an independent one. When some people do freelance work, the price is calculated based on the number of pieces. Sometimes it's 1,500 US dollars, or depending on how long it takes, they charge 800 US dollars for a flat picture with color. If you are in an art union, in fact, sometimes it is 2,500 US dollars a week, or it can be 4,500 US dollars a week, or sometimes it can be 5,000 US dollars a week. I remember a graphic designer on a TV show I worked for before. He drew a map himself, which was quite large and full size. He asked for $8,000 for the entire map. No matter how many hours he worked every day, you If you think it's OK, just give me money.

If you meet a concept artist with extremely rich experience, such as one who has been painting for 15 to 20 years, sometimes the price may be higher than that of an art director.

mount wundagore, Doctor Fantastic 2 concept map, source: Concept Artists Association

"Silicon Valley 101": Is there such top-notch art in China in ?

Li Anran: The working methods of art directors at home and abroad are actually different.Here in the United States, because of the labor union, the art director does not always work on a TV series or a movie. In many cases, it is a group of watching movies and whoever is free, and then you save up.

is actually the union protecting everyone, which means that everyone has an equal job opportunity, and it does not necessarily mean that they will always hire the same people they usually use.

But if you work under such a non-union system, you may have your own team. Art directors who are relatively big-name in China often open their own studios because they ensure a kind of stability in their designs. For such a small and fixed team, when looking for an art director, all the people under me have to be taken away.

This actually puts a lot of pressure on the art bosses. He has to keep looking for jobs, and the time between jobs for his subordinates is not very long. If you have established a studio level, it really means that you may often have 2 to 3 or more projects in your hands at the same time, so you can afford to find so many people.

"Silicon Valley 101": Can you give us an example? How do they operate art projects for the well-known film and television works that have a reputation of persuading the Tao?

Li Anran: In fact, because I have never worked on such a large group in China, it is difficult for me to detail one person. But an art director I admired very much before, Teacher Han Zhong, was the art director of "Ruyi's Royal Love in the Palace" and also designed "The Pillow Book of Three Lives and Three Worlds", which is a novel that I like very much.

I know he has his own studio. Some staff members in his team make concept drawings. For example, if you talk about what needs to be changed tonight, this picture may be changed tomorrow morning. I think this speed is really fast and really amazing. It should be very difficult for us to achieve this situation.

"Silicon Valley 101": What is the efficiency of Hollywood?

Li Anran: The efficiency of Hollywood is that you let him make changes, but he also has his own rights. It is impossible for you to ask me to finish the revision tomorrow morning, because I work 14 hours a day, and it is impossible for you to ask me to stay up late to catch up. I think

domestic painters are really amazing, and the quality is really great. Even if the PS drawing is comparable to 3D modeling, I think he is a "magic painter".

03 Non-AI technology poses greater challenges to industrial processes

"Silicon Valley 101": I see that most of the projects you work on are special effects and visual-heavy. Is this your own choice, or does it provide more job opportunities in this part?

Li Anran: I also think is very magical. Before I came here, I would have thought that these groups might not be possible for me to enter in my life. What I remember particularly clearly is "Harry Potter". Harry knocked on the stone wall and saw Diagon Alley.

I wanted to say, wow, who made this? I thought it was amazing at that time, and I have always wanted to know what kind of people and team made this picture possible.

When I was in school, I have always been interested in these things that are difficult to make. So during my time at the American Film Institute, my final graduation project was also a project with a relatively complex art scene. One of the professors who taught us

at the time felt that my graduation work was very complicated. If it were expanded twenty to thirty to forty times, it would be a large-group production process.

Later, he asked me to be the assistant to the art team of his next science fiction film. After I went there, I found that it was really interesting. All the departments I wanted to know existed, which I thought was amazing.

"Silicon Valley 101": How did you get the chance to film "The Lion King"?

Li Anran: In the end, still depends on the recommendation of friends. For example, if you are compatible with these people, he may recommend you to work with someone he is compatible with.

"The Lion King" came about because the head of the virtual art department met my friend from "Star Trek". When they were looking for someone who knew about art, they happened to talk to me and asked if they had time to do it.

At that time, I felt that the technology of "The Lion King" was very complicated. I once said that I only knew some 3D modeling software. He said that if you know these things, it will not be difficult to learn other things, and then I went.

In fact, when I went there, I didn’t even know that I was in the virtual art department. I thought I was working in the normal art department. Mainly because its technology is too cutting-edge. Later I found out that they were all things I hadn’t learned before, so I had to learn them.

"Silicon Valley 101": People in the group also learn by doing?

Li Anran: In , I find that the really cutting-edge technology often moves forward through exploration. But it mainly depends on whether the director really wants to achieve this, or needs to achieve this, and how to do it, then he has to move forward.

"Silicon Valley 101": Can you tell us about the difficulty of without revealing your technical details or business secrets?

Li Anran: Take the first part of "The Lion King" as an example. They originally wanted to use another software called unity, but its frame rate, that is, the speed of each frame, was definitely not up to the speed of the game. If it is in a compressed state, it will freeze when shooting. Later I chose to use the unreal engine.

"Silicon Valley 101": What is the most critical problem that solves?

Li Anran: If you go back and watch it again, in the first part of "The Lion King", except for the lions, other plants are not moving. But after the latest version of "The Lion King" comes out, you will see that the team I spent a lot of time making wind, and there were butterflies and birds flying in it. In the first part of

, the technology at that time did not reach such a sophisticated state. There were not so many hair movements, and there were not so many animals and water movement processes. It would be unrealistic if these were all produced by a post-production special effects company. When

was shooting a scene like this, there was no one inside. But when you need to use a camera to shoot, it involves unity or unreal game engine software, including current VR, etc. Look at the scenes you want to shoot in advance. These are actually different technical difficulties.

A sentence I have always liked is : Design is challenging technology, and technology is also challenging design. With the technological innovation of in every era, some amazing works will be born.

"Silicon Valley 101": Then why can't the wind and water in the first part be moved? What's the difficulty?

Li Anran: Because the engine cannot run , if it freezes when you take pictures of trees, how can you take pictures of water? Similar to if this thing was originally carried by a large PC, it would definitely not be carried by a laptop.

"Silicon Valley 101": What other technologies in do you think are new?

Li Anran: movies have always been innovating. For example, "Star Wars" is constantly exploring new things in technology. They always have some new technologies. For example, virtual shooting of LED display screens. There is already a screen in front of you, and you need to connect it with the content inside the machine to shoot.

Many people are worried about aigc. But why didn't anyone raise this matter?

Many producers or producers will think that what is inside is what is inside, and what is outside is what is outside. But if you finish the virtual part first, and then do the real-life art, there will be a lot of production problems. Because it is a picture, if the virtual assets do not match the real scene, the picture will not connect.

If it is a special effects company or a game team or a game outsourcer, it is very likely that it does not understand the production process and flow of film art. If you throw a random tree in, how can you guarantee that you will find the same tree in reality?

Therefore, movies have always been about finding the art of the movie first, and then we can talk about how to do this part.

"Silicon Valley 101": Just now you said that this part will have an impact on you. Where do you think the impact will be?

Li Anran: I think the production process of will be much more complicated than before, because it is too detailed, and you can't guarantee the art department or everyone's technology and skills, and all kinds of martial arts can be used. There must be someone who only knows a certain position, and he can only help you in a certain period.

This requires managers to add many new departments and practical operations in communication. They need to understand many new communication methods and then develop a new set of specific processes.

"Silicon Valley 101": Do you think there is anything else you would like to add on this topic?

Li Anran: I think the technology of is developing very fast. I originally thought it would happen in 10 years, but it may come sooner than originally imagined, so I feel very worried about the future work.

For example, when I first went abroad, the big crews were constantly shooting with blue cloth or green screen, and then there were some scenes that involved real-life shooting, all of which were real scenes or site construction, and some of them were shot on site. Doing special effects, etc., I might be able to learn it by watching some introductions to the post-production process. For example,

may have been explored in the past two years for LED display shooting. At that time, people thought it would only be used in feature films or TV series, but now it is also used in short films. I wonder if everyone’s speed is too fast? There is simply no time given for you to receive information and learn.

For example, when "Dragon Family" came out this year, the dragon production and style special effects were already put into the LED display during the later filming of the series. And it’s an episode that has already been aired. You will feel that the speed is really scary.

"Silicon Valley 101": How do you deal with such challenges?

Li Anran: The way I deal with is to keep learning.Article by