author Nick Pinkerton
translates Jr. Y
James Gray's new work "Interstellar Exploration" (Ad Astra, 2019) tells the story of Brad Pitt’s astronaut who went to the far end of the solar system to find his father in order to save the earth s story. Why tell the myth of humans (not gods) in the form of science fiction stories? The director gave the answer in the following interview.
Gray’s four early films-"Little Odessa" (1994), "The Yards" (The Yards, 2000), "We Own the Night" (2007) and "Two "Two Lovers" (Two Lovers, 2008)-is very different from other American movies at the turn of the millennium in terms of location and tone. Immediately after the watershed significance of "Pulp Fiction" (Pulp Fiction, 1994), "Little Odessa" was released the following year (in the United States). It is also a crime film with thugs as the main character. The story is directed by the director of a heavy fanfare, but the similarities between it and Pulp Fiction only stop there-"Little Odessa" is not a postmodern drama, but a sincere narrative of a broken family. ; Also different from Quentin Tarantino’s infatuation with Los Angeles, "Little Odessa" is an out-and-out New York movie.
but not the glamorous New York city that people think of. In this city of thousands of small cities connected by bridges and tunnels, ethnic enclaves are scattered in many areas of Queens and Brooklyn, such as "Little Odessa", "We Have the Night" and "Two Brighton Beach, where the Russian Jews live in Lover, is incompatible with the main cultural circle of "Brooklyn"; or the ugly industrial area full of railways on the outskirts of Queens in "Family Rivals", where no one has been to Manhattan. "In the city". (In "Two Lovers", when the character played by Joaquin Phoenix, who has worked with Gray three times, "came into the city" for the first time, he was so excited as to have arrived in the magical country of Oz in "The Wizard of Oz.")
This is New York in the memory of Gray, who grew up in Queens. Through the film, he saw a wider world. In the film he shot as an adult, the Italian noble director Lucino Visconti was shot. The elegance of the next blends into the context of the American blue-collar class, blends into the heavy tenacity in their eyes. Although far away from the European continent where Visconti is located, Gray's early works gave birth to the native "nobles" belonging to this land-such as Frank (James Kahn), who was born and grew up on the sunny side of Queens in "Family Enemy" ) Is one of the nouveau riche workers who bought mansions in forest hills gardens-and their family burdens.
In recent years, Gray has left his familiar "block" and stepped into a new field. "Immigration" (The Immigrant, 2013) is his first historical film that transcends the pattern of personal life-the story of "We Have the Night" is set in 1988-the film reproduces the crowded Lower Manhattan in the 1920s, Marion Song Ava played by Dia bumps from a Polish Catholic family to New York. On the way, she is trapped on Ellis Island and falls into the hands of the vile pimp played by Phoenix. Among them, Gray's grandfather's Eastern European immigration experience is vaguely visible. "The Lost City of Z" (2016) is farther away from Gray’s homeland, depicting the life of British explorer Percy Foster (Charlie Hannum), who was looking for a legend in the early 20th century When the Lost City in China, disappeared deep in the Amazon jungle. ("Immigration" and "Lost Z City" were shot by the outstanding cinematographer Darius Conti and shot on 35mm film, which evokes the almost forgotten texture and visual subtleties of film in the digital cinema era. The memory of the difference.)
and the recent "Interstellar Exploration" (Ad Astra is Latin, literally translated as "toward the stars"), Gray is far away from home-but, as will be discussed below, from his in the film In the conceived commercial space world, you can see the design of New York's Pennsylvania Station. And this director who rarely used special effects before-"We Have the Night", the former New York City Mayor Guo Dehua is a rare example-now he has made an extremely realistic history of science fictionA poem about the astronaut Roy McBride (played by Brad Pitt) going to the far end of the known universe to investigate the destructive forces released by Neptune, and his father, the legend of the space program Clifford (Tommy Lee Jones) disappeared while leading a mission here many years ago. In the film, Pete described thinness, concise and detailed performances, allowing the atmosphere of the film to move freely between the small and the grand. It also leaves room for some big action scenes, including a thrilling space walk, and The accidental encounter of a floating spaceship seeking rescue.
All this seems to be a sudden transformation, but "Interstellar Exploration" is still pursuing the theme that Gray's work is constantly exploring-anxious family relationships, especially father-son relationships-and it also shows his unreserved aversion to clichés. Gray once used artistic precision colors and dramatic emotional expression to portray dilapidated communities and the poor, thus establishing a personal iconic style; in this film, he once again demonstrated this by demystifying space travel magic. A filmmaker who pays attention to design can always sensitively capture the layers deposited by the river of history. The appearance at any given time is the product of its history. Therefore, it is shocking (and frustrating). The future created by Gray in "Interstellar Exploration" can be realized by the advancement of today's society, while showing the beauty and barrenness of the universe. In Los Angeles, I chatted with Gray about this film that made him worry about it.
Nick Pinkerton: There is a saying: "The end of the world is easier to imagine than the end of capitalism." In my opinion, this seems to be what this film is about. Usually this kind of work always portrays the imagined future, far or near, as a utopian or dystopian form. What surprises me is that the future you imagine is very close to a reasonable extension of our reality. . For example, from a distance, the lunar colony is like Pennsylvania Station in New York, with a Nathan hot dog restaurant and Hudson News kiosk, which is very interesting.
James Gray: Yes, it is very interesting! By the way, I did describe the moon as Penn Station in the script, just as it was in the movie. I think the trajectory of human history is upward. Imagine that human life in the 1300s is quite terrible. A person living in Europe may die of plague, starvation or malnutrition, without medical care, and life expectancy may be only 32 years. Today, the life expectancy of residents in developed countries can reach about 80, and they can live more comfortably and free from pain. We have ibuprofen. Therefore, I am not opposed to the forward-looking view that human society is progressing, and I believe it is true. If
draws the progress of human development as a line graph, there must be depressions, such as Hitler, etc., but the overall trend is always improving. But for me, there is no answer as to where human society will go. Some people will say that the socialist dictatorship is grossly wrong, but at least it is fighting against capitalism. If you said to a teenager in 1966: "Do you think that guy is a sell-out?" They will understand what you mean; but if you use this word with young people today, they might think you are Said that the iPhone in the store is sold out.
My thinking is that the future is neither utopia nor dystopia, but both. The future in the movie is just a representation and expression of the present. Some people think about "what will happen in the future? Will we drive the space wheel of George Jason (the character in the cartoon "The Jasons")?" when conceiving science fiction works, I will not In doing so, I think the future is an extension of the meaning of reality.
So I said to the team: "Look at today's world, and think about what it will be like in 50 years?" For this reason, we "go back" to 50 years ago and look at today from the standpoint of the year. For example, was there a Sharpie marker 50 years ago? The answer is yes. There were similar pens at the end of the 19th century, but they have become what they are now since 1963 or 1964. Such examples help us grasp the details. We have also studied computing (devices). In the future, they will continue to be miniaturized and can even be implanted in the ears. Therefore, in a sense, technology will become invisible, so we will not be too big on the “magic” of high technology Make a fuss, this is not the "Tomorrowland" in Disneyland, nor the 1964 World's Fair. We want to weaken andAlmost eliminates the presence of technology.
NP: I like the cooling room McBride uses on Mars, which reminds me of the suicide room in "Soylent Green" (Soylent Green, 1973).
JG: That cooling room is a calming place, like a screen saver and icons that go around when the page is loaded. I'm probably the only person who finds these things interesting. please continue.
NP: From a certain perspective, this film seems to be regarded as a...I don’t want to use the term "anti-space travel film", but we do see people’s abuse of space exploration in the film, even though there are some things It is more suitable to be done on earth, and space itself is a harsh, indifferent and hostile environment.
JG: I am not opposed to space exploration. I don't think it is an evil thing. I question "Why don't you spend money on the earth". On the contrary, I am a supporter of space exploration. We must admit that human society was built on and thrived on collective myths, so the moon landing in the mid to late 1960s was ambitious and inspiring. Contemporary people and those younger than us are not. Will realize the significance of the time when Armstrong and Aldrin set foot on the moon, experienced the raid of the Vietnamese "New Year Offensive", the assassination of John F. Kennedy, Robert Kennedy and Martin Luther King, and Richard Nixon's new president ...The United States was in a mess at the time. Against this background, the moon landing plan is undoubtedly a significant national myth, and in this regard it is valuable. But the collective myth is not a panacea for all diseases, its value only ends here.
Just in the year or shortly after the Soviet Union launched the first man-made satellite, Kurt Vonnegut (American writer) wrote in The Sirens of Titan (1959) , He is really very predictable. At the beginning of the book, he said that human beings simply throw themselves into space, "like throwing a rock", which I remember. Then he said that he found everything there was just empty, funny, meaningless emptiness, and the real unknown is the human soul. When I read these, I thought it was wonderful. This is what I tried to express through this movie, to make a science fiction movie about the myth of people, not the myth of gods. This is the original intention, but I don’t know how much can be conveyed, maybe I just pretend to say these nonsense here, of course I hope this film does have some meaning.
NP: McBride is often alone, which gives him a lot of time to introspect through monologues. These moments are extremely direct, and the classic script writing theory believes that no matter when the characters should not directly confide their mental activities, they should just circle the event. In this film, you do the opposite. Although this is not your usual practice as a writer, in this film you have adopted the most direct way of expression.
JG: You are right. In our rehearsal, he can only open his heart completely and honestly when he speaks to another machine terminal that no one listens to in a mechanical tone, such as just checking his biological rhythm. That's right, avoid expressing the scriptwriting skills that are classic or even old-fashioned. As I have said many times before, my requirements for works are always as sincere and as direct as possible. This film is more or less an experiment, but I want to say that this is the most naked, fragile, and direct Brad Pitt we have ever seen. Can the barriers between actors and characters, between actors and movies be broken? I want to try to destroy anything that hinders sincerity. I need a medium that allows him to express himself clearly and sincerely.
NP: We rarely see such a direct form of expression in movies of this type, or even in all movies. But digging into the profound meaning hidden in it and feeling the intense intimate experience it brings is indeed very difficult to resist.
JP: Yes, although I think some people may not like it. I am a big fan of "2001: A Space Odyssey" (2001: A Space Odyssey, 1968). It is one of my favorite movies. It's amazing. But I know that I can't shoot. It's not just a question of talent, it's another matter. Even if I have enough talent, I can't shoot because it's already completed, it's called "2001". So, in a sense, I want to make a film that is exactly the same as "2001: A Space Odyssey"Anti-movie. In "2001 A Space Odyssey", Kubrick successfully used the perspective of a pseudo-god. He said: "Well, aliens exist, but you can't see them, you only see big black stones like sculptures." You can project anything you want here, right? It is like a minimalist abstract artwork from the 60s. Is it good or bad? What does it mean?
Spielberg's movies are like fables. "E.T.: The Extra-Terrestrial" (E.T.: The Extra-Terrestrial, 1982) is not a true test of extraterrestrial life. It is about how a child learns to be alone in the face of his parents' divorce? It will be very difficult, he will be very lonely, so in fact, the aliens are acting as imaginary friends here, and the film is successful at this point. The excellence of Kubrick's works lies in the unclear meaning. Therefore, I cannot speak about gods, false gods or aliens. So what is left to talk about? The realm of the soul. And how do you express it? The way we decided to try was to be as sincere as possible.
NP: This film seems to have many different forms of interesting intertext with "Lost Z City". There are some obvious clues throughout your work, such as the relationship between father and son. But this work is particularly focused on "exploration", whether it is physical or spiritual. There seems to be an inherent connection between the two films. Is that true?
JG: This is not intentional, because I wrote the script before, and I was waiting for "Lost Z City" to be funded. Maybe they echo each other at the script level, but the order in which I write is not the order in which the audience sees the movie. But I do feel that "Lost Z City" is obsessed with a lot of historical and biographical metaphors, which makes me a little bit frustrated. It’s not that I’m dissatisfied with it. I have worked hard on "Lost Z City", but I feel that some other things must be solved before the father-son problem can be confronted. The last scene in the film, Foster (Charlie Han Nahm) has realized a certain sense of atonement for his son.
In "Interstellar Exploration", I feel that the question of father and son needs to be raised straightforwardly, and this story is more primitive, more mysterious, and shorter (than "Lost Z City")... Well, now there are just the credits. 10 minutes and 11 minutes are long, but I think this film should be 1 hour and 45 minutes instead of 2 hours and 20 minutes. This is a very bold and direct attempt. Father disappeared into the vast universe. He went to explore. What does it mean? Looking at their relationship from the standpoint of the son, the father could have left him for so long and never returned. The experience of
being abandoned by my father is very personal to me, so I firmly grasped this and got rid of the historical and biographical elements that had to be introduced in "Lost Z City". This is one of the factors that drove me to shoot "Interstellar Exploration" more directly-it seems to be contrary to our intuition when we talked about space movies-but entering the endless emptiness is an unassailable metaphor. So the answer to your question is yes, there is a connection between the two films.
NP: From another perspective, these two movies are almost the opposite. Because "Lost Z City" took place in the heroism era of 19th century exploration, there are still unknown gaps on the world map waiting to be filled. In "Interstellar Exploration", McBride's space exploration, even the furthest point he reached, is still within the known route. He didn't risk going to any place where no one had set foot before.
JG: Yes, and to some extent, it is his own choice. His father had extremely narcissistic and delusional suggestion: "You and me, we can join hands to prove the fallacy of science", McBride refused, completely refused, I think this is very important. If he is determined to seek the unknown realm of space, that is not what the world really needs. Obviously not what I need.
NP: I also want to talk about the action scenes. I think they are very powerful. In some respects, they seem to develop and continue the shooting techniques in "We Have the Night"-using inaudible sounds to set off the atmosphere, using inaudible sounds The picture creates suspense.
JG: Thank you. The lunar rover scene (McBride was attacked by space pirates) I thought about it for a long time, because I watched a very interesting movie, "A Hijacking" (A Hijacking, 2012), directed by Toby Yas Lindauheim. Later I watched "Captain Philip" (Captain Phillips, 2013), a story that is completely the opposite of "The Wrath of the Sea". Watching these two films successively makes me feel very interesting. What attracts me in "The Wrath of the Sea" is the moral choices faced by the Danish executives in the film. Everything revolves around negotiations and has nothing to do with my film. But I think the plot of joining the Somali pirates will be great. No matter how developed certain places are, they show you that there are other places in the world, pulling you back to 2011, and even back to the era of "Treasure Island".
When I was studying the moon, I read some space treaties, but I found them difficult to enforce. So, I want to express it in a different way in each scene: we should not go there, even if those who pursue progress are saying: "Look, we are building a moon base!" But everything is not the same as on Earth Bad? Without borders, lawlessness, and no control, is this a human being free from bondage? When
(on the rescue ship) is attacked by animals, it is also showing that unknown terror lurks in every corner, because that is a place we should not go. In essence, this is an unusual filming routine. Each scene in a movie is usually based on the victory of one party or the realization of the goal. And in "We Have the Night", I was thinking of Joaquin Phoenix’s failure in my head, and filmed the scene of the car chase—he would see his father die but couldn’t do anything about it. The rain seemed like a god’s fulfillment. Or a comment on his fate.
In "Interstellar Exploration", I tried to extend this idea: the protagonist is forced to be someone he doesn't want to be, looking for his father in some strange Oedipus disaster. He went where he shouldn't be, faced with a power far greater than him, and he was helpless when he was small, weird and realistic. The ability of characters is limited, which is a very powerful expression for me. In a way, this is also anti-heroic. The protagonist is subject to a higher order, or disorder, a randomness beyond human control. Each scene of
is to express this idea. The state of affairs is not under the control of our hero. Just like in mythical hero stories, I don’t mean superheroes. These two “heroes” are not the same thing at all. I’m talking about the more pretentious, more jerk, and the kind of heroes that university professors talk about. Joseph Campbell (American comparative mythology researcher)'s theory-struggle, the flow and traction of fate, chaos, and the state of the world-the state of the universe in this film-all of which are not under the control of the protagonist. This largely determines the development of the character.
My personal philosophical view is that, despite the advancement of human society, our thinking, attitudes and world outlook have not changed much in the past two centuries. The country is easy to change, but the temperament is hard to change. So I want to show the impulse to go back to the original under the rapid development.
For me, people can easily fall into the trap of total affirmation or total negation. I want to put forward the opposite view, disorder and order coexist, meaninglessness and meaning coexist, and in "meaninglessness", we find meaning. My pursuit has always been: "Your story is very clear, but it has more different meanings. How did you do it?" This seems contradictory, but it is my real motivation. It is not ambiguity, but there are different meanings and interpretations.
