Every reporter: Song Qinzhang Every editor: Liao Dan, Ma Ziqing
Before New Year's Day, Ni Jianda, chairman of Shanghai Jupai Investment Group Co., Ltd. (hereinafter referred to as "Jupai"), was besieged by investors. The background is that many investors are There was a redemption problem with the private placement product recommended by Jupai Financial Planner. Several investors reported to the reporter of "Daily Economic News" that the private equity funds subscribed from Jupai around 2016 have already exceeded the expected duration and are still pending, with a large amount of principal "disappeared".
In its glory days, Jupai ranked among the "first echelon" of domestic wealth management companies, but its current situation is shocking. So what happened to Jupai? In this regard, Ni Jianda recently accepted an exclusive interview with a reporter from "Daily Economic News".
People in the Shanghai real estate industry should be familiar with Ni Jianda. Ni Jianda has successively served as chairman of Shanghai Urban Development Group, chairman of the board of directors of Shanghai Industrial Development, executive director and deputy chief executive of Shanghai Industrial Holdings, and vice president of the China Real Estate Association. He once had certain influence in the Shanghai real estate industry. The former helmsman of SIIC City Development left his post in 2015 and moved to Jupai.
Ni Jianda said in an interview that since the end of Shanghai’s lockdown in 2022, Jupai has not had any new business. Although Jupai has experienced investment failures, it has not engaged in self-financing since its listing. "If Jupai had established a capital pool and self-financing, I, Lao Ni, might have been in jail today."
Regarding the incident where he was surrounded, he expressed the hope that investors would stand with Jupai and safeguard common interests. Interests.
spent one million in private equity and recovered 10,000 yuan in 6 years
As a private equity fund investor, Liu Ming (pseudonym) knew that the risks involved were very high, but more than 6 years later, only 10,000 yuan of principal of 1 million was recovered. It exceeded his "expectations".
Back in 2016, on the recommendation of Jupai’s financial planner, he spent 1 million yuan to subscribe for the Juda Dawn Ranger Private Equity Investment Fund (hereinafter referred to as the “Ranger Series Fund”), with an agreed period of 5 years. In January 2018, the fund made its first income distribution, and Liu Mingfen received about 10,000 yuan.
What he never expected is that has now been nearly 6 years since the last income distribution, and Liu Ming has never received the second income distribution. To him, the original 1 million yuan principal was almost all " "The stone sinks into the sea" .
Among Jupai’s clients, there are many investors like Liu Ming. Ms. Chen (pseudonym) is also one of them, and she unfortunately "stepped on the wrong side" of many private equity fund products.
Ms. Chen told reporters that in 2015, she subscribed for 1 million yuan from Beijing Lian New Third Board No. 1 Fund (hereinafter referred to as "Lian New Third Board No. 1"). More than 8 years later, she has only received a total of The repayment arrived at about 110,000 yuan. "We (investors) asked Jupai, but we didn't know anything. (Jupai) said no one was in charge of our matter. It was too early, and their staff had been changed 'n times'." The
fund contract shows that Lianxin Innovation The fund type of No. 3 Board No. 1 is a private securities investment fund, and the fund manager is Tibet Lianchuang Yongyuan Equity Investment Co., Ltd. (hereinafter referred to as "Tibet Lianchuang"). The expected duration of the fund is 2 years. When the expected duration expires, the fund manager can extend the termination of the fund for 1 year based on the operation of the fund. Tibet Lianchuang announced in June last year that it will continue to actively promote the exit of Lianxin’s No. 1 invested projects on the New Third Board, and will regularly report the exit progress to investors before the exit of all invested projects.
In addition, Ms. Chen also subscribed to the Ju'an Beijing Zhonghong Yueying No. 1 special private equity fund sold by Jupai in October 2017 (hereinafter referred to as "Zhonghong Yueying No. 1"), but has not received any response so far. payment. Ms. Chen’s description of the fund is, “There is no fixed income within 4 months, and when something goes wrong, Jupai does not actively ask for money to solve it.” The fund contract of Hongyue Yueying No. 1 in
shows , the fund manager is Shanghai Yidezhen Investment Management Center (Limited Partnership), and the performance comparison benchmark is 9%/year. The duration of the fund is expected to be 4 months from the date of establishment of the fund to the date of the investment start date of the last batch of subsequent investors in the fund (if there are no follow-up investors, it will be calculated from the start date of investment by the initial investors) .
founder Hu Tianxiang has been jailed
Jupai was founded in March 2010. It is one of the earliest companies in China to enter the wealth management industry. From 2011 to 2014, it achieved steady expansion and completed Series A and Series B financing. E-House China, Sina, and Julius Baer successively took shares. In July 2015, Jupai’s shares were listed on the New York Stock Exchange, becoming one of the few domestic wealth management institutions listed in the United States. Before and after the listing, Jupai launched a "two wings in one" management organization, deploying asset management and wealth management at the same time. Its business scope covers real estate investment, private equity investment, public funds, private securities investment and other fields.
Unfortunately, the glory of the past did not last long. Since 2018, Jupai has suffered consecutive losses. In 2022, Jupai was initiated by the New York Stock Exchange for delisting because it fell below the New York Stock Exchange's continued listing standards that require "listed companies to maintain a global average market capitalization of at least US$15 million for 30 consecutive trading days."
In recent years, Jupai has been frequently exposed for being involved in private equity disputes, and has even gone to court with investors. Judging from the judicial case information collected by Qichacha, Jupai has been the person subject to execution in more than 40 final cases, almost all of which have not been performed, and the unfulfilled amount exceeds 60 million yuan. This year alone, there have been 7 enforcement cases involving a total amount of more than 10 million yuan. Today’s Ju Sect can be described as “ridden with everything.”
Jupai has been inseparable from a "soul figure" since its establishment - Hu Tianxiang. As one of the founders of Jupai, Hu Tianxiang established Jupai in 2010, positioning it to provide third-party financial services for high-net-worth individuals, and led Jupai Investment (jp.n) to be listed on the US stock market in 2015.
According to Forbes China, after the establishment of Jupai, it began to use government projects and real estate projects as breakthrough points to intervene in big brand real estate projects. At that time, there were more than 60,000 real estate developers in China, but Jupai only selected the top 100 and only provided projects for large companies such as listed companies and state-owned enterprises to ensure the company's high quality and high safety. In addition, Hu Tianxiang and his Thanks to the rich network of entrepreneurial partners, Jupai’s net profit after tax reached 15 million yuan in 2011.
The turning point occurred in 2017, when Jupai suddenly heard the news of Hu Tianxiang’s resignation. There are many opinions from the outside world about the reasons for Hu Tianxiang's resignation, such as internal strife among senior executives and dilution of power. Every reporter learned from within Jupai that the direct reason for Hu Tianxiang's resignation was that he was reported by employees to have misappropriated the accounts of listed companies at will. After Hu Tianxiang resigned, Jupai was succeeded by Ni Jianda. It is understood that when Hu Tianxiang left, he took nearly half of the team of financial planners with him and started a new business.
Talking about Hu Tianxiang, many old customers of Jupai mentioned the "Jupai Basin" project to reporters. It is reported that "Jubaobao" is a p2p project founded by Hu Tianxiang in 2015 through Shanghai Yixun Internet Financial Information Services Co., Ltd. (hereinafter referred to as "Yixun Company"). In 2018, "Giant Basin" began to be exposed as having large-scale payment problems.
After a large number of "Big Treasure Basins" were overdue, Hu Tianxiang's whereabouts became a mystery and he was out of contact. Jupai insiders revealed to every reporter that Hu Tianxiang was arrested by the police and imprisoned in May 2019, and is still serving his sentence. Many investors reported to reporters that there were redemption problems in film and television and performing arts private equity funds previously subscribed through Jupai. The above-mentioned Jupai insiders said that such products were mainly recommended to investors by Jupai during the "Hu Tianxiang Period".
Conversation with Ni Jianda: After taking over Jupai, there was no self-financing and capital pool
When I saw Ni Jianda in person, he was wearing a Chinese tunic suit, which was similar to his previous image on the official website. Despite the siege, his mental state did not seem to be affected.
Ni Jianda's office is very spacious. When sitting across from every reporter, he introduced that Jupai's office address had been moved to Lingang last year. This office was only temporarily borrowed, and the company's computer room was still here.
The following is the conversation between reporters and Ni Jianda:
nbd: As far as I know, Jupai has gone through several important strategic adjustments since its establishment. I would like to first ask you to briefly introduce the growth process of Jupai, as well as several important turning points in the middle.
Ni Jianda: Okay, the topic you are concerned about is quite interesting.I can only make sure that what I tell you is from my own experience and other people's experiences that I have learned over the years here.
Jupai was founded by Hu Tianxiang in 2010. Hu Tianxiang himself is a financial salesman, and he is relatively more realistic about profits. He felt that rather than doing sales for others, it would be better to do it himself, so he established Jupai in 2010. Hu Tianxiang is a person with a strong business acumen. The year when Jupai was founded coincided with the listing of its peers in the United States. He feels that there is a lot of room for future growth (in third-party wealth management).
I met Hu Tianxiang in 2015. After I left the system and was approved by the government, I joined Jupai. Before inviting me, Jupai had already submitted a listing application to the United States in 2014, but they had always hoped to find a (partner) with a high social reputation. At that time, I happened to be the honorary president of the Shanghai Young Entrepreneurs Association, China Real Estate Vice President of the Industry Association. After I joined, Jupai was officially launched in 2015. So what do I do in the company? In fact, it is similar to a strategic consultant. The entire team belongs to Hu Tianxiang, the business model belongs to Hu Tianxiang, and all operations and management belong to Hu Tianxiang. I am not actually involved in the management of the company. The listing of
is the first turning point for Jupai. The benefit of being listed is that Jupai must operate in accordance with U.S. securities trading rules. It turns out that Jupai is just a personal company for Hu Tianxiang. After going public, we must establish a company structure that meets the requirements. At the same time, it will be more advantageous for us to negotiate with counterparties, and our customers will have more confidence in us. Among them, I think the biggest benefit is that listing has stricter compliance requirements for companies. Even looking back today, I think this is the biggest benefit to Jupai. The disadvantage of going public is that it is not as flexible as before. As the boss, Hu Tianxiang can no longer dictate where to go. He feels restricted (in terms of profit distribution and internal management).
The second turning point was Hu Tianxiang's departure. In 2017, an employee reported that the listed company's accounts had been misappropriated and shareholders' rights and interests were harmed. In the end, the shareholders' meeting decided to let Hu Tianxiang resign from all positions. After Hu Tianxiang left, I originally planned to leave because my mission had already been completed. But at this time, the major shareholder suggested that after Hu Tianxiang left, Jupai needed someone to manage it, so he entrusted me to help, so I stayed again. Therefore, it was actually in 2018 that I took over the management of Jupai.
As for the many rumors circulating on the Internet, saying that ginger is hotter than old, and that I pushed Hu Tianxiang away, this is not true. Because after Hu Tianxiang left Jupai, he founded Suxiang and Juden and started a new career. We also hoped that he could stand up again, so we did not reply to the rumors at that time.
After I took over in 2018, Jupai faced one of the biggest challenges. Hu Tianxiang’s original "Jubaobao" project exploded, and "Jubaobao" actually had little to do with me. "Ju Baobao" is a p2p project founded by Hu Tianxiang in 2015 through Yixun Company. It is not directly related to the listed company. However, for many investors in "Ju Baobao", they think that Hu Tianxiang is a listed company. The listed company is Hu Tianxiang. Therefore, after the "Jubaobao" explosion, many investors sought explanations from listed companies. During that time, people came every day. This is why Jupai moved its office address here from Shanghai University's Yanchang Campus.
nbd: After Hu Tianxiang left Jupai, "Jubaobao" was still in his name. After that, were Jupai's financial planners still helping customers buy "Jubaobao" products?
Ni Jianda: After Hu Tianxiang left Jupai, he was still the boss of Jupai Basin, and Jupai’s financial planners would still help customers buy Jupai Basin. Because "Jubaobao" does not purchase a product through me and then let financial planners promote it. "Ju Bao Basin" is an app. When Hu Tianxiang was the boss, everyone had this app. Customers with a capital of less than 1 million or short-term investments could buy from "Ju Bao Basin". Calculate the commission directly to the financial planner.
nbd: What happened to Hu Tianxiang?
Ni Jianda: Hu Tianxiang left Jupai in the second half of 2017, and then founded Su Xiang and Juden. He also continued to do private equity and p2p. After p2p exploded, he did other things. As a result, he released the money and then collected it. If he didn’t come back, he would ask for collection, and he was eventually arrested by Shandong police in May 2019.
I just said that Hu Tianxiang is a very commercially sensitive person. He does everything. The only problem is that the bottom line is not strong. When we worked together, he was a super good salesman and a super good resource. When he founded Jupai, his business method still followed a sales logic. For example, if he wants to recruit a senior executive, he will first promise to give him the title of CEO. When the other person comes, he finds out that he is actually the person in charge of a subordinate company of Jupai. There is no one in this company. When the other person comes, he will recruit people and wait for "the top of the mountain". "If you fight too hard, then the opponent will be the "mountain boss". The management of almost all his companies follows this logic.
nbd: Recently, many investors have reported that the private equity funds they bought under the recommendation of Jupai financial planners have not been paid out as scheduled, and pointed out that Jupai has problems with risk control. So after you actually took over Jupai, what problems did Jupai have in terms of risk control? Have you made timely adjustments?
Ni Jianda: Hu Tianxiang left a problem when he left. The products originally released were not connected to the computer system and were all paper documents.
After Hu Tianxiang left, I made several moves. During 2018 and 2019, all our products will be connected to the computer system, and all products will invite investors to serve as members of the risk control committee. In addition, I originally proposed asset transparency, which was criticized by many people in the industry. In my opinion, if wealth management does not promote asset transparency, I cannot guarantee that there is no collusion of interests between every project manager and counterparties.
We completed asset transparency in 2019. The epidemic began to spread in 2020, and China's economy will still be very good in 2021. After the Shanghai lockdown ended in 2022, I decided that Jupai will no longer develop new business, and there has been no new business until now.
Even though we have done a lot of real estate projects, overall, the proportion of real estate involved in all our projects is relatively high. But the part that remains now, that is, the part that is mainly subject to rights protection, actually has a relatively low proportion of real estate. It is mainly due to problems with products other than real estate.
When it comes to Jupai’s unpaid products, the media likes to use the word “explosion.” why? Because of shock. But this makes it difficult for ordinary investors to distinguish whether this refers to the "explosion" of the capital pool, the delay in payment of private equity funds, or the failure of the counterparty's investment. Investors generally have three mentalities. First, investors’ investment behavior is based on trust in the institution’s professional capabilities, management capabilities, and market judgment capabilities; second, investors and financial planners have relatively good personal relationships and generally follow Recommendations from financial planners; thirdly, for private equity products, investors must hope for high returns and low risks, but there is no free lunch in this society. Therefore, once a product delay occurs, the first thing many investors think of is that Jupai management is responsible, and Jupai financial planners are also responsible. They will definitely not find the reasons from their own perspective.
I think it is okay to use the word "explosion" in p2p, and it is also okay to use it in "pseudo private equity", but for truly compliant private equity funds, if it is just a product delay or investment failure, I don't think it is "Thunder". why would you say so? Because private equity has investment thresholds, only those with certain investment capabilities and economic judgment can buy private equity.
I dare to face the media today because I have my bottom line, which is that although Jupai has had investment failures, it has not done any self-financing since its listing.
Investors say that there is a problem with Jupai’s risk control. In fact, this problem can also be looked at from the other side. If you were asked to invest in Evergrande in 2018 or 2019, the risk control at that time would definitely not have predicted the situation today.
We invested a total of 26.6 billion yuan in Evergrande, but as of today, Evergrande has not repaid us more than 61 million yuan. I was in a cold sweat, Evergrande was liquidated, and we were the only ones to escape perfectly.Evergrande invested more than 26 billion yuan, but we all withdrew, leaving only 61.3 million yuan for a project in Changzhou. Since the establishment of
Jupai, the big account has raised almost more than 200 billion, and now only more than 18 billion exists, including equity, debt, good and bad. From the perspective of a financial institution, in the past 13 years of Jupai, our principal and interest payment ratio has been very high. But if there is a problem with the redemption of the product purchased by a certain investor, Jupai will definitely not be able to redeem the money without a capital pool and self-financing. However, for investors, it is considered that Jupai Feng Control becomes a problem.
In fact, we can only operate in compliance with the law and cannot (completely) fight against market risks. I can only ensure that the team I manage has no moral hazard. I am taking over Jupai now. If I find that there is moral hazard or collusion of interests between anyone and the counterparty, I will not hesitate to send him in.
nbd: There were previous media reports that the private equity products of Shanghai Jupeng Asset Management Co., Ltd. controlled by Jupai were suspected of mismatching in capital pools and maturity; other reports said that the private equity funds that Jupai once sold had problems with fund managers and The project party is the relationship between the subsidiary and the parent company. How to explain these?
Ni Jianda: As far as I know, the products I handle cannot have the situation where the fund manager and the project party are subsidiaries and parent companies. As for whether it is possible during the Hu Tianxiang period, I don't rule it out.
I still say it responsibly today. If Jupai had established a capital pool and self-financing, I, Lao Ni, might have been in jail today. Why did Jupai have so-called thunderstorms earlier, but it was able to stop adding new businesses? Because I'm not worried. After Jupai stops new business, the management of other funds can continue as usual, and these assets correspond one to one.
Investment is definitely risky, and there is no guarantee of profit or loss. When an avalanche occurs, no snowflake is innocent. Investors come to me today and they will come to me tomorrow. In fact, I have been living like this in the past few years. If investors come to me, as the chairman, I can receive them.
nbd: Jupai’s financial statements show that the company has suffered continuous losses since 2018. What is the reason?
Ni Jianda: The explosion of p2p in made it difficult for many first-level fundraisers. In addition, after Jupai proposed asset transparency, my philosophy was that I could not earn the price difference, but could only collect management fees, which resulted in a decrease in income. Using products with high spreads and high risks to pay financial planners high commissions, I don’t think this path will work. The reason for the loss of
is also due to three costs: capitation fee, legal fees, and normal office expenses. We had about 3,000 employees at that time, and the average income in the industry at that time was basically no less than 500,000, ranging from several million to two to three hundred thousand. After surviving the p2p crisis in 2018, everyone thought the market would get better, so they still recruited new college students for training and spent a lot of money. However, they found that these practices were meaningless, so Jupai later began to reduce personnel and stop losses. .
We can stop adding new products in 2022 because Jupai does not have a capital pool. Stopping new products will not affect the operation of old products. It will end after all funds are liquidated.
nbd: You were besieged by investors in your community last month. So through this interview, what do you want to say to those investors who have not paid their bills?
Ni Jianda: First of all, I think they came to block me, and the behavior itself may be illegal. Secondly, my attitude is that these investors are helpless and helpless, and I understand all their actions. I think Jupai should stand with investors, represent investors, and spend more time and energy defending their rights against counterparties. We are also in litigation with some of our counterparties, and some are in the process of preparing for prosecution. It is not that we do nothing as some investors think. If the trust relationship between investors and us is still there, we should unite to safeguard our common rights and interests; if the trust is gone, we can go through judicial procedures. If Jupai commits illegal and criminal acts, it should be punished by law.
After all, investors are not essentially lending money to Jupai to invest, so I think: first, investors should be rational; second, I sympathize with investors; third, I hope we can stand together, Safeguard common interests.
nbd: Public opinion is more concerned because you have been restricted from high consumption, but investors still see you living in a luxury house and driving a luxury car. How to explain this?
Ni Jianda: First, the house I live in now was bought in 2008 and moved in in 2010. My annual salary at that time was several million, so it shouldn’t be too much for me to live in this house, right? Do you think I need to explain this to investors? Second, you can check the car they stopped that day. This car was bought for me by the project company when I purchased land in partnership in 2016.
nbd: In 2015, some media conducted an exclusive interview with you. It happened to be that you left your position as chairman of SIUD and moved to Jupai, jumping from within the system to outside the system. When you mentioned this decision at that time, He said he wanted to experience a different life. So looking back now, what do you think of that original decision?
Ni Jianda: I don’t think I regret it. First, this is a life experience, my life experience; second, at least I think that in this industry, in its current form, Jupai is a compliant private equity; third, no one can guarantee If I had not made this choice at the beginning, life would have been smooth sailing, and what was supposed to come would surely come, and there would be nothing to regret.
nbd: Jupai is in a difficult situation now. Do you think you still have the confidence to lead Jupai out of this situation in the future? How to explain to those investors who have not paid their money?
Ni Jianda: I use my own actions and behavior to explain to investors, jointly safeguard the interests of investors, and reduce losses as much as possible. But under the current situation, it is impossible (for some products) to be redeemed (in the short term), because this is essentially an investment behavior, and no one can make money on every investment. There must be a probability of failure. We have had so many products and so many redemptions in the past, I think we have surpassed many financial institutions.
Under the current situation, I really don’t see the future of Jupai. When the financial economic situation goes down, many institutions have lost their prestige. Jupai can stay here today because of compliance. If it were not compliant, problems would have arisen long ago. No one can save the economic downturn (the financial losses caused). Although I am definitely not a pessimistic person, I have to face this reality.
nbd: The economic slowdown does not mean that everyone in the wealth management industry will stop doing it. In such an environment, what should the wealth management industry do?
Ni Jianda: I think there will definitely be opportunities for wealth management in the future. The premise is to make investors more mature and management institutions more mature, and we cannot continue to develop in the current model. I think the wealth management institutions that currently adopt the commission-based model will definitely fail.
nbd: You just mentioned that the commission system model has drawbacks, so how do you think the wealth management industry should adjust in the future?
Ni Jianda: I think that doing finance requires rules. Now our rules are incomplete, change frequently, and require a "strong" management mechanism with clear operating methods.
If the wealth management industry wants to have a future, it must have strong supervision, mature investors, and a professional management team. In particular, the management team must not only be professional but also ensure ethical conduct.
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